Talk:Umi Monogatari

	Anime and manga portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of anime, manga, and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Anime and mangaWikipedia:WikiProject Anime and mangaTemplate:WikiProject Anime and mangaanime and manga
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Spoilers

User:Glenn Magus Harvey has been trying to remove spoilers over and over. Different wording is used for each edit, but considering the fixation on one particular sentence, it's pretty clear the edits were made with the same intention. Pretty sure spoilers shouldn't be a concern.

I also have IRC logs where he states that his intention was entirely to remove spoilers, but I don't know if it would be proper to paste them over (although that channel doesn't have a "don't paste logs elsewhere" rule anyway) NotARealWord (talk) 13:15, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the event that someone nitpicks that Glenn Magus Harvey wasn't warned about removing so-called "spoilers", I've placed the standard notice on his talk page.[1] Also, given the first edit summary, it is quite clear that the subsequent edits are in violation of WP:SPOILER, so the IRC log shouldn't be necessary to demonstrate that he is editing the article in a disruptive manner. If he continues to remove of otherwise obscure the plot detail, take it to the administrator's noticeboard. —Farix (t | c) 13:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I know that Wikipedia's policy is spoiler-ignoring. I've also seen that pages for other anime series that essentially provide plot summaries that are spoiler-free yet informative. In my most recent edit, I aimed for a the solution that also best serves Wikipedia's aim to be encyclopedic (describing the role of plot details rather than presenting trivia). (For what it's worth, I have the IRC logs as well and I'm saying the same thing here as I said there.) Alternatively (as I stated on IRC as well), I have considered writing up summaries for all the characters. ~GMH talk to me 14:07, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing as a "spoiler-free" plot summary—unless you are like me and believe that there is not such thing as spoilers. If it is "spoiler-free", then it is incomplete. —Farix (t | c) 14:16, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Role of plot details" the way you wrote it was needlessly vague, and using terms like "drives the story" is steering towards interpretation rather than a straightforward recap. And those other pages don't exactly mean anything for what standards to use, considering I can very easily bring up an article that does "spoil" plot details. NotARealWord (talk) 14:18, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Farix: By that I mean statements of a plot in more general terms, such as in the overview section of Kiddy Grade, which describes story details using descriptions like "start to see the darker side of the GOTT" and "[t]heir past is gradually revealed". I'll admit that my wording is probably not the best, so feel free to suggest a better wording. Alternatively, as I mentioned, I'm thinking of just fleshing out the rest of the characters section by adding similarly-sized short summaries, as the list of characters without description is rather uninformative. ~GMH talk to me 14:28, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the interest of full disclosure, NARW and I have been arguing about this on IRC concurrently. (NARW and I know each other from another context.) ~GMH talk to me 14:31, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I can easily find an article that spoils things. First one that came to mind: The Fullmetal Alchemist article (which actually has a higher rating than the example you provided) describes the nature of the conspiracy plot, the main villain's identity and plans, and how things end for the lead characters. And I'm pretty sure some people would argue that "see the darker side" is itself a spoiler since it could suggest a change in tonality of the story. That what qualifies as a spoiler is even remotely arguable is probably one of the reasons why Wikipedia needs to completely ignore spoiler concerns. NotARealWord (talk) 14:37, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting that you bring up Kiddy Grade as that is an example of an incomplete plot summary that needs to be rewritten. However, when writing plot summaries, whether a particular plot detail is a "spoiler" should not be taken into consideration. A balance between completeness and brevity are the main factors when writing a summary. If you look at any of the Quality Articles, you will see that almost every single one of them has a complete summary of the plot (or as near enough one can get with an ongoing series). In fact, a complete summary is required to get above a C-class quality rating. —Farix (t | c) 14:59, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Farix: Fair enough, I see your point. By the way, would you mind if I added short character descriptions to the rest of the cast, along the lines of (though probably shorter than) the character bios for the three characters currently described? ~GMH talk to me 15:11, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Adding more character descriptions isn't a problem so long as you are not leaving out significant details because you think they are "spoilers". —Farix (t | c) 15:28, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well I don't want to turn this into a trivia page, because that's not the point of Wikipedia either. Anyway, I've added a few words for everyone, except Utasha (a name I can't recall from the series). I changed the previously-posted reason for Kanon's breakup with Kojima since it was incorrect (as Kanon specifically cites at least one reason that's not suspected infidelity, if I recall correctly). Also some grammar fixes. ~GMH talk to me 16:28, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Who is Utasha?

Is that the miko (is that the right term?) who sings the island's song? I'm having trouble finding confirmation online, but the voice credit for one version of the song in the soundtrack (Nami Miyahara) matches the voice credit given for this character name, and aside from even less significant characters, pretty much just the miko is left by process of elimination. Anyhow, I've refrained from adding a character description since I'm not sure that's the right character; someone else can add it later once this is confirmed. (MyAnimeList does not list this character in the characters section, so that was useless as a resource.) ~GMH talk to me 16:36, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]