Talk:UK garage

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see also Talk:2Step

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Disambiguation Dear Sir/Madam, Please add a note about other meanings of garage-parking space/car workshop etc. I would have done it myself, but I do not want to edit the main page as I am new to Wikipedia and do not want to unintentionally damage/vandalize a page. Thanks a lot and sorry for any inconvenience caused. Thanks George E Matthew

Hi guys, I haven't been to this page since I wrote the article, which is more than a year ago now. Nice to see that it was awarded the "good article" quality label form Wikipedia. So thanks to everyone who contributed and improved my original article. However, I saw the discussion about the title of the article and wanted to add my thoughts.

When I first wrote it, I wrote it under the "2step". Since then, some of you have changed the titles and now there is this article and the "UKG: UK Garage and Two-step", which is basically the same article again. I suggest that we clean up this mess. My solution is that we have a disambiguation page with the title "Garage" and two separate articles on UK Garage (where we leave 2step and 4x4) and US garage.

Furthermore I wanted to tell Sven that "heavily shuffled" means exactly what is written in the other article. In other words: yes, link them! :-)

Next, the pronunciation issue: The thing is that US and UK garage are close in terms of history and even closer in terms of terminology (it's both garage, right? *lol*). The different pronunciation on either side of the Atlantic helped many people to distinguish between the two genres and so they deliberately used the different ways to say it. "garaadge" was the US pronunciation and "garridge" was the UK’s version. It's not like it would be relevant for the music itself, but it’s just how the majority of people would refer to it. However, as we’ve seen now, there are people out there (at least in Sussex) who deviate from this "cultural classification". This is the reason why I believe it makes sense to have two separate pages for the articles with two different names, UK and US garage. The main problem is that “Garage” is just the lazy way of referring either to UK or US garage. But without hearing it ("garaadge" or "garridge"?) it is difficult to figure out which one is meant. So please, don’t simply use “garage” as a title for the page as it does not accurately reflect what is really meant (which of course is UK garage in this case).

Last but not least: It's nice to see that the lists of links and artists are being extended, but I believe it's getting too much here. Links like "DJ Emerge- House & UK Garage" and "www.hlsrecords.com" are definitely in the wrong place here. Same goes for artists like Artifact and Danny Bond (D-Tox and DJ Veteran are ok because I like their productions *lol*). No, seriously, this is supposed to be an explanatory article to illustrate what the music is and to give people who are interested in it a starting point of internet references and popular artists if they want to dig deeper. But this is not simply a link collection where every record store or artist can add his page.

Cheers to all of you! Foresight

This page arose bacause I noticed garage means different thing to different people. Maybe it should be a disambiguation page between UK garage and Garage music (US). Or maybe it should stay as it is because they're related. Andy G 11:15 22 Jun 2003 (UTC)

See also The Great Garage Debate 80.43.82.71 16:55, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

• I Agree that Garage and UKG /two step should be separate...will put it under a new heading as well

Pronunciation of "Garage"

Good article, but I disagree with the following statement:

- The correct pronunciation of UK Garage is "Garridge"... - 

But I didn't want to change it without asking what other people think.

I live in Sussex in the UK and I was quite a big fan of UK Garage. I don't pronounce garage as "garridge", but more like "ga-raadge" - a bit like large. Saying "garridge" is really an accent. To be really pedantic, I don't think the Queen would say "garridge".

UK Gah-raaaaaaaaj?! HAHA. that sounds very silly. I don't think I know ANYBODY who pronounces "garage" in the context of music like that. It's definitely "garridge".

What can I say? I'm from England and I say "Gah-raaaaj". What do you want me to do!!? It's like the old song: "You say neither and I say neither - let's call the whole thing off!" [1]. We could have a fairly pointless argument about this. I haven't got a problem whether anyone says "garridge" or "garaadge", but my main points below still stand: correct pronunciation and relevance.

I accept that a lot of people in the UK would probably say "garridge", but I think the description as "correct pronunciation" is a bit strong. And I wonder whether the sentence is really relevant for the article anyway.

Garage was born in London and had/has it's greatest following in London. Londoners pronounce it 'Garridge' (unless they are upper class) therefore it is 'garridge'. I have heard posh fellows calling it 'garahjjj' and it sounds ridiculous. Kid Dynamite

Garaaaj...this bloke must be joking right...I've never heard anyone say garaaj for the music or the thing you put cars in. Maybe a few people from public school may say garaaj but really he must be having a laugh.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.68.255 (talk) 18:37, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I live in San Francisco and I'm very involved in the underground music scene and here, in 2010, we pronounce it the American way. My friends from London pronounce it differently, obviously. I think the whole issue of pronunciation should be scrapped. 67.164.98.225 (talk) 02:02, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Heavy shuffle

quote: "All 2Step tracks are heavily shuffled, which gives the tracks a swing feeling."

Does anyone know if this shuffle is referring to shuffle as in http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Shuffle_note&redirect=no and if so, how about adding a wiki-link to this musical article?

Regards, Sven

suggested merge

Both Garage (dance music) and UKG: UK Garage and Two-step cover much of the same material. One is more general and the other includes one of the sub classes in the name. A merge would eliminate duplicate material and be less confusing. Vegaswikian 19:30, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better to just move all the UK Garage stuff over to UKG. US and UK garage aren't really the same type of thing at all. Most of the people into UK Garage are unaware of the connection to the Paradise Garage. What happened as I remember, was that you had the Tony Humphries New Jersey garage sound and this stuff along with other New York city house music became popular with UK djs around the late 1980s/early1990s. Then you had a little offshoot where UK djs, mainly in London, would play a lot of the "skippier" type of stuff out of New York, early MAW mixes, Mood II Swing, and especially Todd Edwards and would tend to speed it up to plus 7 or 8 on the decks. This music was only "garage" in the sense that at that time pretty much any house music from New York was called "garage". This mini-scene crosss-fertilised with the heavy bass lines from Drum and Bass - at the time you would have large raves at the likes of Bagley's warehouse in Kings Cross and one room would play the skippy Garage stuff while Drum and Bass was played in the larger rooms. That's how Speed Garage/UK Garage was born and by this stage there was really no connection at all with the Paradise Garage.

I think it's still worthwhile maintaining a page just about the music inspired by the Paradise Garage with possibly a link over to the UK Garage article. Mcgahon 12:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Keep as separate article Escaper7 17:28, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

UK and US garage should have seperate articles, they're different styles with completely different origins. If all the subgenres of house, trance, techno and drum & bass have seperate articles then these should too. - Zeibura S. Kathau ^{(Info | Talk)} 14:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

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Garage and UK Garage may cover much of the same material, but Garage itself is Deep House and what you're saying that UK Garage is Speed Garage makes it pointless to merge. Because in that sense they don't go under the same name unless you're saying Garage > Deep House > UK > Speed Garage. Odd Faden 11:07am 04/17/06

• The suggestion was to list the common elements in the main body of the article. The differences could be covered in a heading for the various sub genres. Vegaswikian 18:54, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

UK Garage isnt Speed Garage. Speed Garage is a totally different sounding genre. Many people who do not listen to it, think it is 2-step garage that has been "Sped-up" and this isnt the case. The connection between the 2 genres is sometimes only in name, the differences are far too strong to say "UK Garage IS speed garage". And US Garage is also different, In the same way that US house is different to UK House.

This difference between UK Garage and Speed Garage stated above is only partially correct. Speed Garage was the name used originally (often in a derogatory manner) for UK Garage when it first emerged as a distinct genre and sub-culture/'scene'. The DJs, promoters and clubbers who went to these nights preferred to UK Garage epithet because it addressed the fact that it was a distinct music (albeit with US garage influences) that was being developed in the UK. SupernautRemix 18:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

GA Re-Review and In-line citations

Members of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. Currently this article does not include in-line citations. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 03:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Reasons for GA Delisting

This article's GA status has been revoked because it fails criterion 2. b. of 'What is a Good Article?', which states;

(b) the citation of its sources using inline citations is required (this criterion is disputed by editors on Physics and Mathematics pages who have proposed a subject-specific guideline on citation, as well as some other editors — see talk page).

LuciferMorgan 18:04, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

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What makes you think that Garage is dance music?

Electronic and garage music are entirely different.

Ableton Live is perfect for Techno songs due to the live recording, beat repeat, and special filters to produce a "break" in a dance song.

FL Studio (Fruity Loops) is perfect for creating grimey instrumentals. Note artists Wiley Dexplicit Skepta listen to their instrumentals at last.fm you can tell it's been made with fruity loops as it sounds like it's bean made with a drum matrix with different instruments making different melodies mixing together. Does that sound like dance music to you? even Channel U A grimey british tv station Channel U TV.

Desbest 21:23, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree, Garage has very little in common with Dance or House music and the 2 step beat makes it next to impossible to mix with other genres of dance music (which led to its demise in Europe with the 90s explosion in popularity of dance DJs in the Balearics).

Although UK Garage may have been influenced by US Garage, the UKG is far more 'hard' with lyrics about violence and deprivation as a common theme. This article does not cover the controversy around Garage, So Solids prisoned members, the numerous stabbings and shootings at UK Garage nights that plagued the genera and the increased negative sub culture associated with this music. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.140.185 (talk) 05:20, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

US garage music

why is US garage dance music only skimmed over? there was plenty of US garage music in the 90s and it had little to do with the Disco sounds of the 70s and 80s. there's way too much slant on UK garage here. Spunkymcpunk 07:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Because this article is called "UK Garage" not US Garage LOL --82.37.224.143 (talk) 19:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

NY House merger

ARGGGGGGGG something needs to be done to reorganise the garage genres!!!??!?! --Reubot 08:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Merged

Okay, someone already started this off by moving everything from UKG: UK Garage and Two-step to Garage (dance music) and turning the former into a redirect, I've finished it by cleaning the UK garage article up a bit and moving it here (seemed the more appropriate title). So there are now only two articles, UK Garage and New York House (the general opinion seemed to be separate articles...) - Zeibura S. Kathau ^{(Info | Talk)} 02:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Notable tracks list

I'm suggesting something needs to be done about this list; embedded, indiscriminate lists are discouraged in articles particularly when they're this long and full of redlinks. If it must be done as a list, I'd say a shorter list with explanations as to why each track is notable, like in the electro house article, would probably work better. - Zeibura ^Talk 01:01, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

I also doubt that "Ed Case" was some sort of American leader as well... -SK, 03 August 2007

I have removed this section as there is no valid criteria under which it exists. If someone wants to re-add this section it needs to be properly cited/sourced, not just a random list of people's favourite songs. 83.147.134.22 (talk) 18:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Infobox?

Article doesn't have an infobox... I'd like to fix it but I don't know enough about the genre to add one with any useful information.

85.148.120.85 18:41, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

 Done - Zeibura ^(Talk) 19:13, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Suggested external links

Dubplates Raver Community Forum Since 2003 UK Garage, Grime, Bassline & other underground genres: Unsigned artists upload and share your music online get free legal mp3 downloads plus live Internet radio shows plus extra features http://www.dubplates.co.uk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.189.171 (talk) 21:06, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

There's a good history & description of the various forms of UK garage here: [2] 86.136.133.12 20:57, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
And what about http://speedgarage.net ? It's a fan site dedicated to speed garage music —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arrayka (talk • contribs) 06:23, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I would like to suggest Ukgarage.tv for inclusion into Wikipedia. Ukgarage.tv is a video share site for the Uk garage scene. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.17.6.197 (talk) 19:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC) I didn't sign my request before for ukgarage.tv so... Cazpa (talk) 03:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Influences

i would say it's influenced by dub reggae...quite heavily. yall feel me? --Marco Passarani 17:18, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 05:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Second Person

Reworded —Preceding unsigned comment added by RaphaelBriand (talk • contribs) 23:13, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Split

The article needs to be split into UK Garage (common words for this phenomenon), 2Step and 4x4. -- Werwerwer11 (talk) 15:59, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Complete crap

This article has become complete crap. Whoever decided to re-write it all has done a horrible job. This was once a "good article" by Wikipedia standards. I've even embedded sequencer loops and audio to illustrate this fascinating style. Now the article's short and bad and it's a shame. Wikipedia at it's worst. I'm disappointed. - Foresight —Preceding unsigned comment added by Foresight (talk • contribs) 04:25, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely spot on - it's rubbish. Hardly a single date in the history section! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.228.109.254 (talk) 23:45, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

NOT HOUSE

Garage has different time frame to house, it may share elements of style with house but only because house covers so many genres. Because Garage is built from the base up on a different time frame its connection to house is strained. The reference to chicago house should be removed, Garage is not 8 bar music it can not be mixed into house music by a DJ because the frames clash, it is called 2 step and 4 x 4 for a reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.79.156.231 (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

UK Garage

This UK Garage is not entirely correct, and not very good, seems to me that its written by either fans who were not involved with the music directly, and in part, someone who is trying to change history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony Portelli (talk • contribs) 15:21, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Which parts do you suggest are incorrect? tetraedycal 19:51, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I had to open an account to comment. This page is a disgrace. Before it was called speed garage by the people who hated it the name was underground 1997-1999 was one of the best things to happen to uk music since soul 2 soul and it deserves better than this rubbish written by Some one who obviously was not there in the shops have that buzz on a Saturday morning for what was comming out. I spent hours and a fortune on some of the best music made in the Uk. And MJ cole had one bad tune sincere where as Tuff Jam were peerless. Just get better was one of the first along with - spin spin sugar, club lonely , sweet sensation, big baby. And the bible for the time was Touch magazine. How could a serious article miss out that important part? Absolute Joke. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deannut (talk • contribs) 19:25, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Im wondering why the article states it emerged in the "early to mid nineties" - having followed British dance music fairly closely from 94 to c2005 i genuinely dont remember hearing it untill d&b had peaked 96-97 - i personally first heard it on London pirate radio in summer 1998 and remember reading about speed garage in 'the Face' magazine the same year. I remember the article discussed how noone yet knew how to dance to it. Truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true; and she does not despise the jewel which she has rescued from the mud, but adds it to her former treasures 20:03, 20 August 2021 (UTC)