Jump to content

Talk:UEFA Euro 2024

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Germany 2024" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

The redirect Germany 2024 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 May 31 § Germany 2024 until a consensus is reached. Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 02:37, 31 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Third place teams[edit]

Is it really suitable to have a pseudo-table for third place teams when we don't have any third placed teams? The table has no meaning until at least one of the groups has completed, surely? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:06, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are temporary third-place teams. I think it's good enough. Eitan Drutman (talk) 15:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
but it tells us absolutely nothing. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's like coloring the first 2 places before the teams secured their places imo... Eitan Drutman (talk) 17:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FIFA World Rankings[edit]

It’d be excellent to have each team’s current FIFA World Ranking in the group tables to give a better sense of the relative equality/disparity of each match. NelsonMartin67 (talk) 15:14, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

the source doesn't do that, so neither should we. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:24, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Let’s make this Wikipedia page better than the source. NelsonMartin67 (talk) 19:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what we do here. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Current FIFA rankings of the teams are here: https://inside.fifa.com/fifa-world-ranking/men NelsonMartin67 (talk) 19:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Attendance of the game in the group C[edit]

Why the attendance in group C in the game in Stuttgart is 54000? But higher there is written that Stuttgart Arena has 51000 capacity? What is wrong? Attendance or capacity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramirez2387 (talk • contribs) 00:06, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Attendance is wrong I think. Eitan Drutman (talk) 12:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There were some issues with that in past tournaments, so it's probably the issue this time as well. Eitan Drutman (talk) 12:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Correct error! Why the game has 54000? If the stadium is written with 51000 capacity? Wfk.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramirez2387 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UEFA Euro 2024 Gaming[edit]

I think we should add a part about UEFA's official gaming features - the "Fantasy Football", the "Match Predictor", the "Tornament/Knockout Bracket(s)", and maybe the Quizzes as well...

Opinions? Eitan Drutman (talk) 15:15, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Seems very unencyclopedic. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:45, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How is it different from the marketing, symbols, etc. ? Eitan Drutman (talk) 12:33, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
doesn't every major football league have a fantasy football attached? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:58, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's true, yeah. How is it changing anything though? Eitan Drutman (talk) 17:36, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because it's routine and not notable. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:23, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think that it's still worth writing about... Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:46, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any secondary reliable sources that talk about these games? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:50, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't find any. Eitan Drutman (talk) 20:06, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Only some youtubers... Eitan Drutman (talk) 20:06, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why? Eitan Drutman (talk) 13:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean "why"? Have those games been covered at all by third-party sources? If not, we can't include it. As far as I can see, those things are only mentioned on UEFA's own website, which is not third-party. – PeeJay 14:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
By "why" I mean why can't we include it? Eitan Drutman (talk) 14:13, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
? 🤔 Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:32, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Premature group highlighting[edit]

This has been a constant "feature" of soccer/football tournament pages on Wikipedia forever, so apologies if this has been talked about to death other times...

Can the highlighting for advancement (green) or possible advancement (blue) only occur when teams actually qualify? It's always been annoying to visit tournament pages in the mid-late phases of the group stage and to never tell if a team has actually qualified or if it just happens to be sitting in the top two slots and is just being auto-colored by the template. 2A02:20C8:4124:0:0:0:0:D501 (talk) 02:20, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, we like pretty colours at all times (especially via flags), so it doesn’t matter about functionality. Seasider53 (talk) 02:37, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Updating the goalscorers in real-time[edit]

Why not update the goalscorers in real-time? It's not like it will change or something...

I'm talking on the main article, not the table at the beginning. Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:04, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because we aren’t a sports website. Seasider53 (talk) 18:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As I said before, it won't change. So why wait for the game to end? Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:56, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A multitude of reasons, the main one being that we aren't a news website. Our policy can be found at WP:LIVESCORES. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:51, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You keep missing my point... My point is that we can update it in real-time so it will be updated as soon as possible... Eitan Drutman (talk) 20:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No. We aren't a ticker-tape news site. There's various reasons why we don't update scores as they happen, including avoiding potential mistakes and edit conflicts. We aren't here to be updated "as soon as possible". We are an encyclopedia. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Okay. I understand what you're saying. I don't fully agree but I'll follow it. Eitan Drutman (talk) 20:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The other reason is that a result is not official until after the final whistle. Anything could happen during a game that nullifies the result. – PeeJay 14:07, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Like what? I didn't see something cancel a goal or match result after the VAR approves it... Eitan Drutman (talk) 14:14, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There have been goals disallowed after lengthy VAR checks before (5+ minutes), this would be a major issue with live updates. Also matches can be interrupted, abandoned, annulled, forfeited, etc. which could result in statistics not being counted (depending on the situation). There is no reason to rush, we can wait until the match has finished to add the complete result/statistics. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And there have been goals recredited to the correct player after initially being credited to the wrong one. An issue that often occurs when players deflect balls into their own goals. Tvx1 18:14, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And what is the problem with just updating it in cases like this? Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:18, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please drop the stick. We don't update scores in real time for a raft of reasons. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:27, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's about the list of goalscorers, not the scores. Just like Eitan, I don't see any issue with updating them real time. There is also no necessity to do so, but it can't do any harm. And if a goal by whatever means is cancelled or gets attributed to another player, Wikipedia can be updated in the blink of an eye. When the match is over and the scores are definite, absolutely nobody will care whether the goalscorer was added during or after the match. There's no reason to dig your heels in over this. Hhl95 (talk) 21:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the list of goalscorers also contains a parameter called "matches". This could cause a confusion, since the match played wasn't added, but the goal was. Leprazoori (talk) 21:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
we aren't a news site - we don't do this. We cite scores and results to reliable sources, we don't "update in a blink of an eye", that is not our job. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 06:12, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you don't understand what "a blink of an eye" means then. I'm not saying that we should update the goalscorers real-time, I wouldn't be the one doing that either. I'm only saying that it doesn't do any harm and that there is no reason to have massive objections for those 90 minutes. Yes, it's not strictly in line with Wikipedia guidelines, but there is no need to dig your heels in over this. Hhl95 (talk) 00:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have a consensus not to update until after the match is over. There is, indeed, "no need to dig your heels in over this". Feel free to gain a different consensus at WT:FOOTY (or, more likely WT:SPORTS), but it won't change for a single article. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 05:20, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Czechia & Türkiye[edit]

They are using Czechia why can't Wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.116.113.9 (talk) 20:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I swear it was down as Czechia before - can't seem to find when it changed. Has this been discussed? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:38, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see it being discussed on this page anyway
thanks for the reply 97.116.113.9 (talk) 20:40, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The country's article is located at Czech Republic, and the national team at Czech Republic national football team. We will not switch to "Czechia" unless there is consensus that the country's common name has changed. Similar to why we aren't using "Türkiye", or "Côte d'Ivoire" in other articles. S.A. Julio (talk) 20:41, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, there really is a massive thread at Talk:Czech Republic. Probably best to wait until an RM changes on there. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it should be written as "Czechia". Eitan Drutman (talk) 13:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on what? We can't make changes here just based on what people think, it has to be based on sources. – PeeJay 14:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because that's how it is written in the offical games... Eitan Drutman (talk) 14:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about in third-party sources? What do news websites say? The BBC says Czech Republic and Turkey, not Czechia and Türkiye. So does The Guardian. – PeeJay 16:30, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why does Wikipedia prefer to use the third-party name(s)/way instead of the official name(s)/way? Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that official sources should be preferred over third-party sources, but in this case there's more to it than just the source. This is about practices in the English language. Czech Republic and Turkey can make statements about how they call themselves, but they cannot dictate how people from other countries, speaking other languages, call them. Imagine Germany would 'dictate' that everyone across the world should call them Deutschland, no matter what language they speak. That makes absolutely no sense. And that's exactly the case with Turkey. Czech Republic is a slightly different case, but it still goes that they cannot dictate how they are called. Hhl95 (talk) 21:58, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a section named "Adoption of Czechia" in the Wikipedia article Name of the Czech Republic, where it contains citations for Czech Football Association adopting Czechia on 24 May 2022. The citation is in Czech, and I can't read Czech, but a cursory glance on that Wikipedia article (cursory read is a dangerous thing I know) seems to contain a lot of citations in that article. But I haven't gone into checking the edit history of that article to see if many of those changes were made recently (within the proximity of Euro 2024). However, if that's Czech Football Association's official stance on its naming, it does make a strong case of needing to change the name from Czech Republic to Czechia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.237.17.220 (talk) 06:02, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think we should really defer to the title of the article in question Czech Republic national football team. If that were to have a successful RM, then it should change here. But that would likely change based on the Czech Republic article Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 19:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UEFA gives Czechia and Türkiye [1].--Anatoliy (Talk) 19:23, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yeah, but we don't exactly go off what UEFA says. Usually we would go with what third party sources say about this, but in this context there is a lot of other things to keep in mind. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 06:21, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why does Wikipedia prefer to use the third-party name(s)/way instead of the official name(s)/way? Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The what? Wikipedia summarises what third party reliable sources say about a subject. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:30, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why not use the official (UEFA's) names though? Eitan Drutman (talk) 18:35, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because that’s against Wikipedia’s policies.Tvx1 21:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm firmly on the side of those who think these countries should be referred by the names used by FIFA/UEFA. I've put something on the talk page of Turkey national football team to try to start a discussion about this, as it doesn't seem to have been discussed yet. US Referee (talk) 15:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And what policy or guideline are you basing that on?? Using official names goes against our established practice. This is the English language wikipedia and we use common English language names, not official ones. This wikipedia has never prioritized official names. Every other language Wikipedia refers to the these countries in that Wikipedia’s language. There just isn’t any reason no to do so on the English language wikipedia.Tvx1 21:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be useful to separate the issue for the names Czechia and Türkiye. Even if both are essentially attempts by the respective countries to rebrand themselves internationally (de facto, in English), the adoption of both names in general English parlance is not identical. Naturally, all language is in flux, and it could be a question of "when" rather than "if" for both cases, but I suspect "Czechia" will _very soon_ replace the verbose "Czech Republic" in everyday speach. At the same time, I can image "Türkiye" always feeling like a foreign word to English speakers. But really this should not be a question on this page, but for wikipedia-wide discussion. KeithWM (talk) 21:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at the talk pages of those countries (Talk:Czech Republic and Talk:Turkey) and you'll see it has indeed been talked about in depth. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:35, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@KeithWM You are right about language being in flux. One of the authoritative style guides in the US, the AP Stylebook, continues to recommend "Turkey", but they have moved to saying either "Czechia" or "Czech Republic" is acceptable, but if the former is used, it should be mentioned that it's more widely known as the Czech Republic at some point in the article. But since this is a change that, if/when it happens, will affect all of Wikipedia, it makes sense that it happens at the talk pages for the respective nations' articles. —C.Fred (talk) 00:53, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for pointing that out! I think I did try to look for them before, but missed them. Annoyingly it seems like a discussion I would like to get involved in (at leat for Czechia), but is so deep in Wikipedia jargon and idiosyncracy that I cannot see how to actually contribute. KeithWM (talk) 22:19, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Section for Incidents and controversies[edit]

Can a section for this be added? This is in the article for the 2020 Euros. The crowd trouble at the Turkey v Georgia game in the stadium is a significant incident, along with the crowd trouble between the Serbia and England fans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.194.245.4 (talk) 12:45, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to write it yourself with reliable sources to demonstrate whether it is noteworthy. You can then submit an edit request or create an account to add the text. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Attendance[edit]

Where do you get the attendance statistics? The source is missing... Eitan Drutman (talk) 15:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They should be in the full-time reports for each match (see Croatia v Albania here). – PeeJay 16:31, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, okay. Thanks. Eitan Drutman (talk) 17:48, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

3rd place from Group B already qualified?[edit]

The table listing the possible combinations of which 3rd place teams will play which first place teams has been bolded to indicate that the 3rd place team from Group B has clinched a place in the knockout round (by indicating that all the possibilities without Group B are no longer possible), but nothing concerning 3rd place teams has been clinched yet. I believe it's impossible until all teams have played at least 2 games. John, AF4JM (talk) 21:47, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, if both Spain and Italy win their next games, both Albania and Croatia will be left with one point, which is almost certainly not enough to qualify. Abkwreu (talk) 22:25, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've corrected UEFA Euro 2024 knockout stage from where it's taken, that article is not edit-protected. Andrzej Witkowski 00:55, 21.06.2024 (CEST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.186.79.192 (talk) 22:56, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consenus needed: Displaying tiebreaker applied before group stage is ended[edit]

@Sb008 has removed all mention of tiebreakers used in the groups, on the basis that the tiebreakers are not officially applied until the end of the group stage. However in my opinion: 1. it is standard practice to do this on all major football competitions 2. it helps to clarify why the table is sorted in a particular way, and aids understanding 3. UEFA themselves are clearly using the tiebreaking criteria when they display the current tables - otherwise (e.g.) why would Denmark be above Slovenia right now when they are even on all visible criteria?

It would be good if some consensus could be reached among regular editors to these pages so that everyone is clear what we should do. Tedeff (talk) 20:53, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The tiebreaker information is quite important to know in order to have some knowledge as to what may happen. Looking towards the last match day, you might think - oh, Poland aren't eliminated, they are only three points behind third place. This would be true if the first tiebreaker was goaldifference, but not head to head. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:04, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The tiebreaker rules are very clear. They only apply on completion of the group. Therefore we should not use them while the group is still in progress. Wiki is about facts, and applying the tiebreaker rules before completion of the group is not in accordance with the facts/criteria as defined in the rules. --Sb008 (talk) 21:41, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And about DEN/SVN. Search for the rules, but my guess is alphabetical order or the overall European Qualifiers rankings. --Sb008 (talk) 21:56, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But then how do you sort the teams before all games have been played? It seems like if you show any kind of intermediate standings, you might as well apply the tie-breaking rules. More importantly, I think it is crucial information which rules will be applied on completion of the matches. KeithWM (talk) 21:44, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Search the rules, it should be somewhere and if not send a email to the UEFA and ask them. It is indeed crucial information to mention which rule is applied in the final group ranking. But it's incorrect to mention a rule which doesn't apply for intermediate rankings. --Sb008 (talk) 21:56, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sb008 then how do you explain the sort order of the teams currently displayed on the UEFA website, they are CLEARLY using the “tiebreaker” rules after points equality: head-to-head, overall GD, GF etc. if they weren’t using them they would still be displaying in the order the teams were originally drawn or alphabetically.
Every ongoing football tournament page on Wikipedia that I can think of (premier league, bundesliga, la liga, serie A, champions league, etc etc) shows tiebreakers used if it aids comprehension of a particular team’s position. Tedeff (talk) 22:08, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not all leagues use HTH criteria, and for those that do, it's defined in the league regulations. Like I mentioned before, search the rules or ask UEFA, but don't apply rules which according the regulations on apply on group completion. --Sb008 (talk) 22:22, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you also drive at 100km/h within the city limits, because it's allowed according to the rules which apply for a highway? --Sb008 (talk) 22:52, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think, to use your analogy, is that should you know the highway code in full, even though right now you are only driving on a rural street? Or, should you know the whole thing for when you inevitably go on different roads.
Isn't this all a bit moot, considering the final group games start tomorrow? Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 22:58, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t think it’s moot, I think it’s an important principle to agree upon. I think it’s essential to establish whether this is what should be done for ongoing football competitions, many of which last for several months (Euro qualifying, nations league, World Cup qualifying to name just a few) Tedeff (talk) 08:43, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well all of the UEFA international team competitions do use HTH criteria, and many last for months, and those Wikipedia pages have always displayed which tiebreakers are in use during the competition, even though “officially” they are not used until all games are completed. This is because it aids understanding and helps people understand why something is a certain way, without them having to go search for complicated rules hidden deep within other websites
Asking UEFA to explain something which is self-evident from looking at the way their tables are currently displayed is entirely pointless. Tedeff (talk) 08:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is the UEFA. I'll give another example, the EURO regulations of the EHF (handball). See rule 9.12. They define what the ranking is based on, during and on completion of the group. TThe UEFA regulations only provide info for the ranking on completion of the group. The ranking criteria during are not specified in the EURO regulations. So, they are are either omitted or specified in other (more general) regulations. What you can't do, is apply criteria which are specifically defined for 1 situation (group completion), apply as well on a situation they're not defined for (during group).

The ranking of the groups right now, can be explained, except for group C, based on the (common) historic ranking criteria (Points, Goal difference, Goal for). So, we don't need, except for C, any notes right now. The problem occurs when those are the sane for 2 or more teams and HTH criteria come into the picture. UEFA should define the criteria for all cases, so it's relevant to know them. Assuming something is not the way to go, it's not factual, and could provide readers incorrect information and make them "understand" the wrong thing. For group C, who says DEN is ranked above SVN based on disciplinary points? Maybe it's simply alphabetically order or based on the overall European Qualifiers rankings? So, it isn't evident at all!!! If you state it's disciplinary, it should be fact. Where is the source for that claim? --Sb008 (talk) 10:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I emailed UEFA Media relations (media@uefa.ch) today with the following question:
“Good morning,
Could you please clarify for me what criteria are used on the UEFA website to sort the teams in the group stages while group stage is ongoing and not all matches are completed?
Are they the same rules as those shown in the regulations (which state they are applied after all group games are completed), or are a different set of rules used?
For example, Denmark are currently displayed above Slovenia in their group table, what criteria have been used to decide this?
Many thanks”
And I received a reply 7 minutes later, simply containing a link to article 20 in the regulations with no further commentary!
“https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-European-Football-Championship-2022-24/Article-20-Equality-of-points-final-tournament-group-stage-Online”
In the absence of any evidence to the contrary I’d say that is fairly clear. I am happy to share anonymised screenshots of this email conversation if you can tell me where I can upload them to Wikipedia. Tedeff (talk) 10:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I trust you on the contents of the email. But, I think you should send them a reply asking with emphasis for clarification since art. 20 clearly states it only applies on group completion. UEFA doesn't answer your actual question.
I totally disagree with your "In the absence of any evidence to the contrary" statement. I'm sure you'll find pages (in whatever sport) with missing information like score, goalscorer or whatever. Based on your statement I could put any information at missing spots, and it would be considered fair to consider it as correct until evidence of the contrary is presented. I could even put a note with some match, say A v B stating 6 players of team A literally peed their pants during the match. And we have to assume it to be correct until evidence of the contrary is presented. That is exactly what Wiki is not about. Wiki is first the fact and then the info on pages. Wiki is not about fairly clear, which could be gossip/speculation/assumption as well.
I've a math background, and math distinguishes itself from all other sciences by the fact that, in math something is only true if proven to be true, where in other sciences something is true unless proven not to be true. In math there exists no god by lack of evidence, where in other sciences there could be a god by lack of evidence there isn't one. Although one could consider Gödel's incompleteness theorems as such proof. --Sb008 (talk) 12:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did indeed reply their initial response with:
”Thank for for the link to the regulations, but they state:
If two or more teams in the same group are equal on points on completion of the final tournament group stage
To clarify, can you confirm if those same rules are used for display purposes, BEFORE the final group game is completed, or are a different set of rules used?”
So far I have received no response. When and if I receive one I will post it here.
In regards to your other comments, I agree that we should strive to have well-sourced information, but I also think that there is a place (and countless examples of it all over Wikipedia) where well-informed assumptions using the information available and logical thinking, are also valid. Your suggestion that one could simply fill in a missing score based on guesswork is not comparable to what we are discussing here.
Wikipedia is not intended to meet the criteria for a mathemetical or a scientific proof. Tedeff (talk) 12:32, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I gave 2 alternatives why DEN is ranked higher than SVN. so what makes your assumption the valid one?
The fact that you didn't get a 2nd reply makes me assume the UEFA didn't give their regulation enough thought and they don't have an answer.
Let me give you another example. If a goal is scored after x mins and y secs, the UEFA will show the goal as scored (in the/after?) x(th) min(s). If we look at the JSON data (There exist JSON beautifier plugins for browsers) of the match ITA v ALB it will show that Nedim Bajrami scored after 1m 23s for ALB, and Alessandro Bastoni and Nicolò Barella respectively after 11m 15s and 16m 51s for ITA. On the UEFA pages we see 1' (ALB), and 11' and 16' (ITA). So, these numbers match with the number of minutes in the JSON data. However Nedim Bajrami did not score after 1m 23s, but after 0m 23s.. I assume that the UEFA cheated with the JSON data for the Nedim Bajrami goal, and changed 0m 23s into 1m 23s, so on the goal would show up with 1' and not with 0'. Displaying 0' might confuse people.
In my opinion the goals should have been displayed with 1' (ALB), and 12' and 17' (ITA), meaning in the xth minute. At the UEFA it apparently means after x completed mins except when it's in the 1st min. Clearly not given enough thought.
If you have a Unux/Linux system you can retrieve the JSON data easy:
root@Germ01:/# curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches?matchId=2036164" | jq -r ".[].playerEvents.scorers[] | (.player.countryCode + \"\t\" + .goalType + \"\t\" + (.time.minute|tostring) + \"\t\" + (.time.second|tostring)  + \"\t\" + .player.translations.firstName.EN + \"\t\" + .player.translations.lastName.EN)"                           ALB     SCORED  1       23      Nedim   Bajrami
ITA     SCORED  11      15      Alessandro      Bastoni
ITA     SCORED  16      51      Nicolò  Barella
Curl is available on Windows systems and you can probably download a jq executable somewhere. The attendance, not displayed on the official website can be retrieved in a similar way:
root@Germ01:/# curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches?matchId=2036164" | jq -r ".[] | .matchAttendance"
60512
Actually, I generate full Wiki pages for sports tournaments/leagues, mostly by using the JSON data. --Sb008 (talk) 17:28, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
jq downloads --Sb008 (talk) 17:31, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Before the Belgium v Romania game yesterday, there were three teams tied on 3 points, and on the UEFA website were sorted like this :
Romania GD +3
Ukraine GD -2
Slovakia GD 0
As you can see this was NOT the “common” sorting because Ukraine appeared above Slovakia even though they had an inferior GD, but it is explainable if we assume that UEFA used their own tiebreaker rules before the group stage ends. Tedeff (talk) 17:47, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop trying to hijack/divert the conversation away from the actual point. Your other examples of other work you do are irrelevant. unsubscribing now Tedeff (talk) 17:49, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because my assumption matches what UEFA have implied by simply sending me a link to the regulations, plus it matches what other editors have assumed, based on precedent in previous competitions when initially adding the tiebreaker info, whereas your assumptions are based, by your own admission, on guesswork. Tedeff (talk) 17:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As long as you don't present a rule and the UEFA only presents a rule which doesn't apply for intermediate rankings, your assumption is not more than a guess as well. The difference is that I present my guesses just as options and don't use them in notes, where you present your guess as fact without proof, and use it in notes. Well, Wiki is not about guesses, with or without precedent, but about facts. 1000s wrongs don't make something right. My actual point has remained the same from start to end, data/info without proof/source doesn't belong on Wiki. --Sb008 (talk) 18:39, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I note with interest that you haven't attempted to explain/refute my comment above regarding Belgium's group. Can you explain why the table was sorted in the way it was, if UEFA didn't use their own tiebreaking rules?
And can you also explain to me why, during the Euro 2024 qualifiers, the Nations League, Euro 2020, its qualifiers etc, users have put tiebreaker notes on interim tables when they were also 'officially' not applied until the end of the group games, and they haven't been removed? Could it perhaps be because they make complete sense, and, as my point has been from the start, aid comprehension of the information? Tedeff (talk) 21:55, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have to explain why, before group completion, people apply a rule which clearly states it's only to be applied on group completion. I'm not a mind reader!!! What's next, I've to explain what goes on in Trunps mind? --Sb008 (talk) 23:55, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matches per group stage?[edit]

Not everyone reading is as familiar as regular fans on the format. I wish the article stated how many matches were played in each group, 3 or 6 or whatever. This information can only be deduced by reading the schedule which means it also doesn't appear in searches as an answer. 108.26.226.158 (talk) 18:00, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On both the general page UEFA Euro 2024 as well as the pages for the individual groups like UEFA Euro 2024 Group A, the number of matches is displayed in the infobox at the top right corner. --Sb008 (talk) 18:25, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Poland eliminated?[edit]

What makes Poland eliminated and Austria assured of a top 3 finish? If Poland wins the last match and Austria loses its last match, they would have equal points and Poland could become third based on goal difference, isn't it? Hhl95 (talk) 21:41, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the tiebreakers, head-to-head matches are considered before goal difference. Poland lost to Austria. Leprazoori (talk) 21:48, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I suppose that's a recent rule then. Hhl95 (talk) 22:03, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe you may be mistaken though. If I understand UEFA right ([2]https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-European-Football-Championship-2022-24/Article-20-Equality-of-points-final-tournament-group-stage-Online), what you are saying only applies if they are tied on points, goal difference and number of goals scored. Hhl95 (talk) 22:11, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a small addition after each rule, it says "in the matches played among the teams in question". The teams in the question here would be Austria and Poland, where Austria obtained 3 points "in the matches played among the teams in question", while Poland has zero. Leprazoori (talk) 22:15, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

England qualified[edit]

England is qualified after the end of the six Group A matches; with 4 points and goal difference +1 they will be better than Hungary and than every possible third-placed team in Group E. 93.36.176.87 (talk) 21:44, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Theoretically, Engalnd can lose by a big margin and then they will have bad goal difference and will be lower than possible third-placed team of Group E. Leprazoori (talk) 21:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
England’s goal difference isn’t fixed yet. If both matches in group E end in a tie, it resuires just a 0-1 loss for England for their goal difference to drop to the same of group E’s third team. Tvx1 22:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spain/ Portugal have won their groups[edit]

Spain/ Portugal are confirmed to get 1st place in their groups and yet their place in the knockouts does not appear in the bracket at the moment. Is it a bug? 2601:600:A480:7D30:C82A:2DA8:5BD9:E30D (talk) 07:23, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

At the time of your posting, they were already in the bracket. Anaxagoras13 (talk) 17:52, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stadium names[edit]

In the list of venues, near the top of the page, the venues are given generic names like 'Munich Arena', in line with UEFA guidelines about sponsorship.

However, in (for example) the details about the group stage, the venues are given their names with any associated sponsorship: for example, Allianz Arena, Munich. This seems inconsistent and confusing.

Perhaps this discrepancy could be dealt with. 2A02:A31B:85D5:7880:D1C3:D955:74D2:57A0 (talk) 19:02, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This has now been corrected. We are not UEFA, we have our own guidelines on titling articles based on the WP:COMMONNAME. If the title of the article is Allianz Arena, we should use this consistently throughout articles. Anyone who disagrees on the title is welcome to open a WP:RM. S.A. Julio (talk) 21:25, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I understand. But UEFA (the organisers of the competition) are saying that, for example, the opening game (Germany 5 - Scotland 1) took place at the Munich Arena. Wikipedia is saying that it took place at the Allianz Arena, Munich.
For the purposes of keeping Wikipedia as an enduring record, shouldn't there be consistency in the log of the entire tournament. At present, there isn't. 2A02:A31B:85D5:7880:AFDD:3347:754B:8B94 (talk) 18:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have to match what UEFA does. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A name which changes every few years cause the sponsor changes, is hardly a common name. And I don't know about other countries, but in my country the fans hardly use the name with the sponsor in it, but the name they been used to forever. --Sb008 (talk) 22:38, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you even do any research of a subject you comment on? The name of the Allianz Arena has never changed since its inauguration. It‘s the only name it really ever had. It is its undisputed common name. Allianz Arena is the name the fans have been used to forever. Tvx1 14:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Combinations[edit]

Based on results from 2024-06-24, as three teams from groups A, D and E have already gathered three points whereas the third ranked team from group B ends at two points, the combinations that eliminates the third ranked team from either group A, D and E while that from group B would be qualified are impossible. This eliminates nine combinations (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 11, 12, 13 and 14 starting from the top of the table). These lines shall not have green background. DamienP24 (talk) 20:51, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Croatia eliminated?[edit]

Croatia should not be shown as eliminated yet, as there are scenarios (unlikely but still possible), where they would finish as one of the top-4 3rd-ranked teams. 2001:7E8:F27F:7901:84C9:6B6A:6673:D059 (talk) 21:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. If Denmark and Slovakia both lose with 3:0 or more and Czech Republic and Georgia both lose, then Croatia could still qualify. Highly unlikely, but as of now not impossible 2A00:6020:4303:1100:813E:2A4A:C847:5BBB (talk) 21:37, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Slovenia. Third-placed teams from C and F could still fall behind Croatia
2A00:6020:4303:1100:813E:2A4A:C847:5BBB (talk) 21:41, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Denmark does not have to loose. It also works, if Denmark wins against Serbia, England wins with at least 3:0 against Slovenia (Slovakia is in a different group, and does not need to be considered). And Portugal needs to win against Georgia, and Turkey against Czech Republic. 2001:7E8:F27F:7901:84C9:6B6A:6673:D059 (talk) 21:44, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Since Croatia can only qualify over Group C and F third placed teams, the only combination of 3rd placed teams in which they advance is A/B/D/E. All other combinations including Group B should not be green and as a result Spain can now only face 3rd D/E/F and Winner Group E only 3rd A/C/D on Round of 16. TommyChat (talk) 21:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disciplinary points in Standings[edit]

Shouldn't there be disciplinary points in each group standings table? 177.84.62.253 (talk) 06:17, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can see it on each group article, for example UEFA Euro 2024 Group B#Discipline. However, almost no sources display the group standing tables with a disciplinary points column, so we don't here either. It would add too much clutter for a very low-ranking tiebreaker. Would we then have to add a column for the team's European Qualifiers ranking too? We have to cut it off somewhere. S.A. Julio (talk) 18:18, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
On this, we are currently reporting 6 and 7 yellow cards for Slovenia and Denmark. BBC is currently reporting it as 6-6 and Denmark being second based on qualification record. [3] Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:02, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to UEFA Euro 2024 Group C#cite_note-11: "Slovenia technical director Milivoje Novaković was shown a yellow card (70')"Jeff (talk) 21:08, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per the booking list, a Slovenian coaching staff member was also shown a yellow card on matchday 1. Per regulations article 20.01(g), cards are counted for players and team officials in all group matches. Though technically UEFA have to confirm the final standings after receiving the reports from the match referees. S.A. Julio (talk) 21:11, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to note, on the disciplinary stats page both Slovenia and Denmark have 6 yellows, so even they seem to be inconsistent on this matter. --178.164.164.58 (talk) 21:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is that UEFA's software does not record cards for coaching staff (other than for the head coach). That's why these cards do not appear on the match pages or PDF reports. The only place they are recorded is the booking lists, which makes them difficult to keep track of. However, per the regulations they are still counted for the tiebreaker. S.A. Julio (talk) 21:57, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • SVN v DEN
root@Germ01:/# curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/${MID}/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500"curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/2036165/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500" | jq -r " .[] | select (.type == \"YELLOW_CARD\") | (.type + \"\t\" + (.time.minute|tostring) + \"+\" + (.time.injuryMinute|tostring) + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.firstName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.lastName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.team.teamCode + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.type)" | sed -s "s/+null//"
YELLOW_CARD     84      Žan     Celar   SVN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     53      Petar   Stojanović      SVN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     49      Morten  Hjulmand        DEN     PLAYER

So SVN 2 yellow and DEN 1 yellow

  • SVN v SRB
root@Germ01:/# curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/${MID}/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500"curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/2036177/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500" | jq -r " .[] | select (.type == \"YELLOW_CARD\") | (.type + \"\t\" + (.time.minute|tostring) + \"+\" + (.time.injuryMinute|tostring) + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.firstName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.lastName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.team.teamCode + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.type)" | sed -s "s/+null//"
YELLOW_CARD     90+4    Žan     Vipotnik        SVN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     90+3    Mijat   Gaćinović       SRB     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     90+2    Luka    Jović   SRB     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     87      Erik    Janža   SVN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     54      Saša    Lukić   SRB     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     25      Filip   Mladenović      SRB     PLAYER

So SVN 2 yellow

  • DEN v ENG
root@Germ01:/# curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/${MID}/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500"curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/2036178/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500" | jq -r " .[] | select (.type == \"YELLOW_CARD\") | (.type + \"\t\" + (.time.minute|tostring) + \"+\" + (.time.injuryMinute|tostring) + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.firstName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.lastName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.team.teamCode + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.type)" | sed -s "s/+null//"
YELLOW_CARD     87      Christian       Nørgaard        DEN  PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     73      Joakim  Mæhle   DEN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     62      Conor   Gallagher       ENG     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     27      Jannik  Vestergaard     DEN     PLAYER

So DEN 3 yellow

Both 4 yellow after 2 rounds. Last round, both got 2 yellow. --Sb008 (talk) 22:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, not sure what relevance that has. But as mentioned in the above discussion, the official booking list gives Slovenia with 5 yellow cards after matchday 2. S.A. Julio (talk) 23:02, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In e.g. the match HUN v SUI the coach got a yellow card.
root@Germ01:/#  curl -s "https://match.uefa.com/v5/matches/2036162/events?filter=LINEUP&offset=0&limit=500" | jq -r " .[] | select (.type == \"YELLOW_CARD\") | (.type + \"\t\" + (.time.minute|tostring) + \"+\" + (.time.injuryMinute|tostring) + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.firstName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.person.translations.lastName.EN + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.team.teamCode + \"\t\" + .primaryActor.type)" | sed -s "s/+null//"
YELLOW_CARD     88                      SUI     COACH
YELLOW_CARD     88      Bendegúz        Bolla   HUN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     69      Attila  Szalai  HUN     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     59      Remo    Freuler SUI     PLAYER
YELLOW_CARD     5       Silvan  Widmer  SUI     PLAYER
But not in the match SVN v DEN
The UEFA makes/has plenty of mistakes/inconsistencies. They also said Nedim Bajrami scored after 1m 23s for ALB against ITA, where he actually scored after 0m 23s. They also have no criteria for intermediate group rankings. For a professional organisation, they should be ashamed. --Sb008 (talk) 00:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Cards for head coaches are recorded as was the case for Switzerland. For Slovenia it was the assistant coach getting the card. TommyChat (talk) 13:50, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

3rd place finishers in knockout bracket[edit]

With further possible 3rd place combinations eliminated, the third place options in the bracket are not up to date. In each third place spot there are only two options left. Example: Netherlands (3rd B) are not a possible opponent to Spain anymore 2A00:6020:4303:1100:750B:6288:33E6:449F (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Group C 2-3rd place tie[edit]

This tie is not decided by disciplinary records - UIEFA site shows, that both teams had 6 yellow cards. Thus tie was decided by position in qualification - last possible tiebreaker (Denmark 9th, Slovenia 15th). Im lacking skills to edit website correctly on myself. Profes1979 (talk) 06:43, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the official UEFA website, it is written "Denmark are through to the round of 16 as group runners-up (finishing ahead of Slovenia on disciplinary points)." Many news articles have made a mistake because of confusion about the number of yellow cards, because a coaching staff member's yellow card is included in some counts, but not others. 86.114.13.250 (talk) 07:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024[edit]

'Bold text'

I wanted to add a reliable source of information which will make readers know more about UEFA Euro 2024 Nelsondg12 (talk) 14:47, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done It is unclear what reliable source you wish to add. Ternera (talk) 14:50, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024 (2)[edit]

Remove this note in the Tiebreaking section:

If there is a three-way tie on points, the application of the first three criteria may only break the tie for one of the teams, leaving the other two teams still tied. In this case, the tiebreaking procedure is resumed, from the beginning, for the two teams that are still tied.

Where is this interpretation of the tie-breaking regulations coming from? It is not found in the UEFA regulations [1] and that is not how I interpret point 4.

In the case of Group E, a single application of criteria 1 through 3 has broken all ties. First Ukraine and Slovakia by point 2 (goal difference), then Romania and Belgium by point 3 (goals scored)

If it only broke the tie for one team at a time, Ukraine would have come out last in the first application and across only the games of the other three, Slovakia would have won by points before Belgium in second and Romania third. 77.213.92.227 (talk) 19:16, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. The clarifying note is correct. You cleary misunderstood the meaning of the word may here. The note does not claim that ties are broken one at a time. Lastly, your example is a four-way tie, not a three way-one.Tvx1 22:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://documents.uefa.com/r/Regulations-of-the-UEFA-European-Football-Championship-2022-24/Article-20-Equality-of-points-final-tournament-group-stage-Online

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024 (3)[edit]

2A00:23C6:1ED4:3F01:342B:E62:EAB2:C101 (talk) 20:35, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To be able to edit the current top scorer of the competition

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 21:30, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

minor error[edit]

Statistics -> Discipline : Anzor Mekvabishvili
should be Yellow card in Group F vs Czech Republic (matchday 2; 22 June 2024))
instead of Yellow card in Group F vs Czech Republic (matchday 1; 18 June 2024) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.186.26.25 (talk) 23:08, 26 Jun 2024 (UTC)

 Done —C.Fred (talk) 23:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2024[edit]

Change the top goal scorer to Own Goals 76.24.178.229 (talk) 12:45, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done

Best scorers[edit]

Ivan Schranz of the Slovak team scored 3 goals! He should be added to the table! 95.103.15.214 (talk) 17:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Poland national football team and Poland Matches against Netherlands, Austria and France[edit]

At 16 June 2024, in Volksparkstadion, Hamburg, started in Group D against Netherlands, France and Austria, Poland have a dramatic loss in the 1st Match by 1-2 result against Netherlands, 5 days later, at 21 June 2024, in Olympiastadion, Berlin, Poland in 2nd Match have a next tragic loss by result 1-3 against Austria, and 4 days later, at 25 June 2024, in Westfalenstadion, Dortmund, Poland in the 3rd Match have a classic draw by result 1-1 against France, this is many times speaking about the form of the Poland National Football Team, potential of Poland and Polish association football, potential of Robert Lewandowski, Krzysztof Piątek, Wojciech Szczęsny, Piotr Zieliński and many other Polish players, potential of Poland's Manager Michał Probierz and potential results of Poland in the next matches! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.29.183.238 (talk) 02:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Diogo Costa's 3 saves in penalty shootout being the first time that's been done at the Euros?[edit]

The commentator on ITV said that no goalkeeper had ever saved 3 goals in a penalty shootout at the Euros before. I don't understnd how to edit the main page (have never edited something on Wikipedia before) and can't be bothered to find a reference for it but maybe someone could verfiy and add it to the statistics section if it turns out to be true? Thanks :) 31.94.0.95 (talk) 22:17, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Talk:UEFA_Euro_2024&oldid=1232610371"