Talk:Twelve Tribes of Israel

Redirect

This page redirects to Mansions of Rastafari, where there is a section named Twelve Tribes of Israel. I suggest that a much more common interpretation of "12 Tribes" is the biblical sense of the tribes of the 12 sons of Jacob: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, etc, and referred to in the Israelite article. Do we need a disambiguation page here? --BillC 19:47, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Edited to redirect to Israelite, as there is already a redirect page Twelve Tribes of Israel (Rastafari), which takes one to the Mansions of Rastafari article, and a redirect page Twelve tribes of Israel which goes to Israelite. --BillC 20:19, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I didn't think about the more general use when I redirected this to the Rastafari article, but of course it's better this way. Thanks. Teklund 12:26, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Removal of redirects

Triggerhippie4, I was editing this article and found that there were redirects from this article and Twelve tribles of Israel to Israelites, which has a lot of background.

It does not appear that there is a separate need for this article. So, I am restoring the redirects. Perhaps you could discuss your thoughts about why a separate article is needed on the Talk:Israelites page and take it from there. Otherwise, it's duplicative information and subject to deletion.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:09, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Then you should nominate this article for deletion first, before restoring redirects. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 05:12, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

What is the purpose of creating this duplicate article? Since I discussed this here first, and you still reverted the edits, I will post a warning on your user page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:15, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

User:BobKilcoyne started this article recently so I'm not alone here who disagree with you. The article has 28 interwikis by the way. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 05:20, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Triggerhippie4 I have been patrolling/reviewing very old items on the Special:NewPagesFeed. This article was started on "7 August 2005".

I was just cleaning up until I saw all the editing that happened today. I was trying to figure out why a topic as important as this is covered the way it is.

Then, I saw the redirects.

Why are you starting an article that duplicates content in Israelites?--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:31, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

And, why play dumb about the talk discussion here?--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:31, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

The article was started recently by User:BobKilcoyne at Twelve tribes of Israel. I moved the text to Twelve Tribes of Israel to capitalize word Tribes. If you referring to discussion on this talk page from 2005 then it's obviously outdated, and you should start formal nomination before removing this article because you're alone here with this opinion. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 05:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

It was started from a redirect that has been in place for some time. It's a duplicative article. I still haven't heard why this article is necessary. I am not alone on this. I consulted with the Help Chat Line before I took any action. They advised me to return the redirects. Hold on, I cut and paste the discussion.--CaroleHenson (talk) 05:45, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Help Chat Line (what is this?!) is not an argument. The article has 28 interwikis and two editors besides you. --Triggerhippie4 (talk) 05:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

I have restored this article. Primarily the reason why this article is necessary as well as the Israelites article is to allow for inclusion and development of the New Testament material which is not covered, and would not be appropriate, in the Israelites article - BobKilcoyne (talk) 05:48, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I posted a message on the Talk:Israelites page and I see that the "Twelve tribes of Israel redirect message was removed from the top of the page.--CaroleHenson (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Quote to Nowhere

I removed a paragraph from this article for (among others things) sourcing reasons, and now it's been restored by User:DarkKing Rayleigh. He is crediting the quote to the Sefaria. Here's the whole quote:

Rashi comments that the verse "In the beginning..." reveals the koa'ach (strength) of God. The world is His Creation and He can give any Land therein to whomever He wishes. Originally He gave the Holy Land to the Canaanites; then He took it from them and bequeathed to Israel (Rashi on Genesis 1:1)[2]

Here's the link to Sefaria given: [1].

The whole paragraph is formatted like a quote, but it does not appear on the Sefaria page linked to. You can confirm this by going to the page cited, clicking CTRL+F and searching for a few words of the quote. DarkKing, could you double-check and find the actual specific page where you found this paragraph? Alephb (talk) 06:29, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Maybe there's a problem with your Internet navigator, the source clearly says: בראשית אָמַר רַבִּי יִצְחָק לֹֹֹֹֹא הָיָה צָרִיךְ לְהַתְחִיל אֶת הַתּוֹרָה אֶלָּא מֵהַחֹדֶשׁ הַזֶּה לָכֶם,שֶׁהִיא מִצְוָה רִאשׁוֹנָה שֶׁנִּצְטַוּוּ בָּהּ יִשׂרָאֵל, וּמַה טַּעַם פָּתַח בִּבְרֵאשִׁית? מִשׁוּם כֹּחַ מַעֲשָׂיו הִגִּיד לְעַמּוֹ לָתֵת לָהֶם נַחֲלַת גּוֹיִם (תהילים קי”א), שֶׁאִם יֹאמְרוּ אוּמוֹת הָעוֹלָם לְיִשְׁרָאֵל לִסְטִים אַתֶּם, שֶׁכִּבַּשׁתֶּם אַרְצוֹת שִׁבְעָה גוֹיִם, הֵם אוֹמְרִים לָהֶם כָּל הָאָרֶץ שֶׁל הַקָּבָּ"ה הִיא, הוּא בְרָאָהּ וּנְתָנָהּ לַאֲשֶׁר יָשָׁר בְּעֵינָיו, בִּרְצוֹנוֹ נְתָנָהּ לָהֶם, וּבִרְצוֹנוֹ נְטָלָהּ מֵהֶם וּנְתָנָהּ לָנוּ:

בראשית IN THE BEGINNING — Rabbi Isaac said: The Torah which is the Law book of Israel should have commenced with the verse (Exodus 12:2) “This month shall be unto you the first of the months” which is the first commandment given to Israel. What is the reason, then, that it commences with the account of the Creation? Because of the thought expressed in the text (Psalms 111:6) “He declared to His people the strength of His works (i.e. He gave an account of the work of Creation), in order that He might give them the heritage of the nations.” For should the peoples of the world say to Israel, “You are robbers, because you took by force the lands of the seven nations of Canaan”, Israel may reply to them, “All the earth belongs to the Holy One, blessed be He; He created it and gave it to whom He pleased. When He willed He gave it to them, and when He willed He took it from them and gave it to us” (Yalkut Shimoni on Torah 187).--DarkKing Rayleigh (talk) 20:59, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

No, there's nothing wrong with my internet navigator. If you look at the "Tribes" section of this article, the first paragraph is indented to the right, as if the whole thing is a verbatim quote. But it's not a verbatim quote. If you look at the source code of the article, that's what the {{quote|}} template is being used for. The article as it stands is producing a fake quote. Alephb (talk) 21:48, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

In other religions sections

I reverted an edit removing teh 'in islam' section becasuse it was likely in bad fait, that said the 'in islam' and 'in christianity' sections do not seem relevant and tehre should be some discussion of whether or not to keep them. blindlynx (talk) 21:26, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Jacob (Yakov)

I tweaked the introduction... The Twelve Tribes of Israel (Hebrew: שבטי ישראל, romanized: Shivtei Yisrael, lit. 'Tribes of Israel') are, according to Judeo-Christian texts, the descendants of the Biblical patriarch Jacob (Yakov), also known as Israel, through his 12 sons by various women, who collectively form the Israelite nation. Within ancient Judaism, one's tribal affiliation had a great impact on his or her location, practices and opportunities, as some tribes enjoyed privileges others did not and some tribes received more blessings than others. Some modern scholars dispute whether there ever were (exactly) 12 Israelite tribes, and think that the number 12 more likely signifies a symbolic invented tradition as part of a national founding myth. 2601:589:4802:AB0:252F:9340:C814:37D9 (talk) 15:31, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

Where the black people at?

Where are the black people? We are beginning of time! 68.184.150.189 (talk) 14:08, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah , this is crazy how are my brothers not in this? 74.134.59.147 (talk) 02:04, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Put historicity first

Wikipedia has to stay neutral. Putting a single believe system first does the opposite. So lets put science first and religion below, as things should be. --2A01:C23:64C0:8400:549A:3AC5:C5E0:40C7 (talk) 2A01:C23:64C0:8400:549A:3AC5:C5E0:40C7 (talk) 19:27, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Symbols

I've started a section on them, as the ones listed as legend to illustration lack ref.

I found one ref, not the best, which leaves out several tribes. Needs more work and I'm not overly keen. Davidbena and Debresser, hi, maybe you'd be interested?

Conflict: for Issachar Deut 33:18 would suggest tents, but that's taken by Gad. Arminden (talk) 19:57, 19 December 2024 (UTC)