Talk:Turlough (lake)

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There's a Turlough in Wales too according ot the Llandovery article

• There's an unsigned edit from 21 May 2008 that adds into the introduction the idea of translation as loch being incorrect. I think the previous (to 21 May) version was simpler, objective and more likely to be accurate. Does anyone else agree or can the claim that lach should be taken as 'place' be substantiated? DirtAmy (talk) 19:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Just Ireland?

https://www.nrk.no/nordland/55-millioner-liter-vann-_forsvinner_-og-kommer-tilbake_-_-her-skjer-det-noe-helt-spesielt-1.13555922 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.193.133 (talk) 18:27, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

FYI, via machine translation, it is an interesting article though I am not sure how we could structure the article with wider geographic area. One citation would be from a Nordic newspaper here, or Brønnøysunds Avis, as a link embedded at the previous post. If any error, please help with your Nolsk fluency. -- Omotecho (talk) / + name of np 01:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC) / 01:00, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

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Article originally taken from an information sheet?

@Omotecho: please clarify this footnote (added here):

• Article originally taken from an information sheet on turloughs available at ENFO, St. Andrew Street, Dublin 2, Ireland.

Do you mean that part of our article was copied from this source? This is a potential copyright violation, and we would need to establish the status of the source. Are you referring to this document? I have not compared this systematically with our text, but at first glance it appears to be substantially different. Which version of our article are you saying was taken from your source? The first version of the article was very brief. Verbcatcher (talk) 23:14, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Verbcatcher:, Hi, kindly refer to the version prior to my edit, the sentence I moved into efn clause has been written therein under the References section. I remember reading that line, trying to match any such source, though ended up unsuccessful to cite whichever source that clause stands for. Glad you raised the flag, but sorry, you need to ask who has originally added that comment. My apology for confusion if I did not convey my intention has been the furthest from pointing out copyright infringement. Cheers, Omotecho (talk) 23:41, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

@Omotecho: thank you, I should have looked more closely. The note was first added as a general reference in 2006 in this version. Much of the text in that version was copied from the ENFO document, and much of the text from that version is in the existing article. We need to clean up the article to eliminate the violating text. Meanwhile I will adjust the note and restore it the references section, as it is a source for the article. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:06, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Verbcatcher: you are super fast to see the picture much clearer than me, my admiration ! So, would you kindly adjust the note maybe including approximate ENFO document being cited? If not that super fine-tuned to exact date of publication the first editor have relied on, at least we two tried out to pinpoint the source, and you have contrasted which part is safe to remain and clean up the rest: could you supplement citation details as a general reference, so that I would find it safer to translate this article into local languages/ja please? Before I actually fly over to the waters, for now, I would try the Wikipedia Library Card and see if I could find trivia to tell you behind those paywalls. Cheers, Omotecho (talk) 00:50, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Omotecho: the source is an information sheet that was probably written for secondary school pupils. I found a scanned copy online.[1] (I usually do not add linked to scanned documents which might be copyright violations (see WP:ELNEVER), but I think this link is ok because www.burrengeopark.ie appears to be sponsored by an Irish Government agency.) The document does not have a clear date, although "BS9.6/92" at the bottom might mean June 1992. ENFO is or was an Irish Government environmental information service. The enfo.ie website appears to be dead, but I found the text of this factsheet in an archive of their website.[2] Verbcatcher (talk) 01:38, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

@Verbcatcher: thank you for crisp clean-up task, and for providing the citation data which makes us see the picture quite clearly. May I propose two citations were added after the first edit, no ENFO but for birds in the area, but not in the ideal form of citation. Do we better inform on Forums where people in ornithology/ecology be notified and come fix parts related to:

• Rahasane turlough is a valued environment for birdlife in Ireland, where the section mentioned both NPWS.ie, and the en:Department of Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media;
• Rahasane turlough and Coole Park are both Important Bird Areas, which BirdLife International has a role to designate natural settings as such, while the citation lacks URL address.

FYI, I feel that there is good chance for this article to expand if granted enough minds/hands to work on, if 49 page-links would suggest something (including many in lingua realm). Will try and find further readings which I could contribute to. Thank you so much, --Omotecho (talk) 02:10, 2 March 2021 (UTC) addendum, signed.

Thank you. I have restored a revised paragraph about Rahasane turlough, and have fixed the non-specific URL. Verbcatcher (talk) 02:51, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I learnt a lot from this communication, thank you so much. Take care, arigatow, --Omotecho (talk) 03:33, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Copyright violation

The preceding exchange (Article originally taken from an information sheet?) revealed that most of this article has been copied from an information sheet published by ENFO.[3] The questionable material was introduced in 2006 here, by Takeshi316 who has not been active for several years. The ENFO article is undated, but the text was added here with the reference "ENFO information sheet on Turloughs available at ENFO, St. Andrew Street, Dublin 2,Ireland.", which makes it clear in which direction the copying occurred. There is no free license shown on the ENFO document.

The sections from 'Seasonal pools' to 'Draining of turloughs' are almost completely copied from this source, and have no cited sources. I will delete these sections, and after waiting for a response here I plan to propose revision deletion to redact the offending content.

Please expand the article in your own words from reliable sources. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:44, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

I have found the text of the ENFO document archived here. A copyvio comparison tool shows the extent of the match.[4] Verbcatcher (talk) 01:32, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

so what is a turlough?

the page does not describe it accurately. "disappearing lake" appears to suggest a lake people can't reliably find but it isn't clear if the water vanishes, if the lake floods beyond its banks and is lost, or if the lake shifts around as the water table shifts, and all of these are my inference, not clearly implied by the only descriptive term used (for all I know it's a mere optical illusion caused by light off water or some kind of over-aggressive reed growth). Article is therefore of extremely limited use. 2A02:C7E:75B:6000:852C:EE5C:AA8C:2967 (talk) 20:04, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes it is somewhat lacking in details. I'll add a better description. Also, I'm going to look into expanding this with more details about the hydrology, flora and fauna, etc. My wife is one of the authors of the paper on the Welsh turlough, so between the two of us we can greatly improve this! Warrenkovach (talk) 11:39, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@Warrenkovach: I encourage you to expand the article. You may be able to make use of the source whose content was improperly copy-and-pasted into an earlier version of this article, as discussed in two sections above.[5][6] Verbcatcher (talk) 03:03, 7 December 2021 (UTC)