Talk:Triton motorcycle

Rewrote this article but it needs some more work. ww2censor 01:58, 16 July 2006 14:02, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

New Category for British Motorcycles

As part of the Motorcycling WikiProject I am working though all the missing articles and stubs for British Bikes. To make things easier to sort out I have created a category for British motorcycles. Please will you add to any British motorcycle pages you find or create. It will also help to keep things organised if you use the Template:Infobox Motorcycle or add it where it is missing. I've linked the Category to the Commons British Motorcycles so you could help with matching pics to articles or adding the missing images to the Commons - take your camera next time you go to a rally! Thanks Tony (talk) 13:15, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Corrections

Deleted incorrect and irrelevant reference to "massive motorcycles". The series was actually called "massive speed" and "the man" referred to was Dave Degens who, by his own admission, didn't actually invent the Triton: "That was how I came to take a close interest in Tritons: the first one I ever saw was ridden by one of the other fellows." (from http://www.dresda.co.uk/ljk.asp). --John Ball (talk)

TV program

• oh well thats not how i remember it, tho maybe then it was another programme. in any case tho, its the only tv showing of a triton so surely thats better than nothing - then again, maybe wikepedia is a website for 'nothing' in that nothing is what readers get going by this outcome. tho i'll put this on my userpage an direct colleagues there instead of this page as it'l have as tv link.

VC 03:08, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

The IMDB reference you added did not support the information you added and wikpedia needs to source such statements because people criticise us for unsourced prose. That is why we require reliable sources. If you have them, then you are welcome to reedit, but personal recollections are not regarded as encyclopaedic reliable source; it is termed original research. The TV link you provided is useless because it make absolutely no mention of the Triton at all. Did you even read the WP:RS/IMDB link I provided for you? Good luck. ww2censor (talk) 03:24, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Fuel injection?

It has been suggested (& an editor has rightly put a "citation needed") that some Meriden Triumph engines used in Tritons had fuel injection. This is news to me, and I can find no references anywhere. Did the Weslake 8-valve head use EFI? Modern Hinkley Bonneville engines have had EFI since 2007, but as far as I know, nobody has built a Triton using a Hinkley engine. Arrivisto (talk) 18:37, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I distinctly remember fuel injectors being fitted to Tritons in the 1960-70s when they were popular to built but I don't remember which manufacturer made them. Motorcycle Mechanics may even had had an article on how to fit them but I don't have access to them. I have no clue about modern builds. ww2censor (talk) 20:10, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

I placed the cn for injection - the complete article is conventionally unreferenced, and it would be at least interesting to know where the bulk of the original info came from (ignoring the 'injection' bit) without doing lengthy research. The 'injectors' were called Wal Phillips, and were a racing 'fuel-tap', vapour not a pressurised spray, relying on a 'head' of fuel above to provide minimal 'positive pressure' at the jet, developed during the 1960s by an old grass-track racer. I doubt that they were commercially successful, they were marketed over a number of years but were very difficult to calibrate and were thought of as 'open or shut', ie. without the four-stages of progression that a normal carburettor has. Available for any bike, not just Triumphs, often fitted to sprint Lambrettas. They come-up on ebay, usually pivoting throttle-plate type (Uk, not looked on US) they also developed a guillotine slide-plate big bore type for racing. When I cited the Kawasaki Z1000H as the first production bike with Fi, there was one a few years previous, the TTSE Munch 1200 with a Prinz car engine. Very small volume production, perhaps 200-ish. Must have been mechanical injection in those days, though. Rocknrollmancer (talk) 01:39, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Moved over some changes from my sandbox

I moved over some edits from User:Benjamin Mako Hill/Triton motorcycle (my sandbox page) and forgot to put that in the edit summary. I've providing the link here. —mako๛ 18:52, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Triton first usage

Michael F 1967 you have changed the year-date adding original research. The first usage of Triton as a 'brand name' was from 1963; if you have a contemporaneous (with the actual alleged events) source that they were produced under that name in the 1950s please quote it so that it may be checked. The first Triumph-Norton that I have documented evidence for was I think (from memory, on another computer) made in 1955. It is a well-known historic race machine.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 02:05, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

The V5 registration date would often take the year of manufacture of the frame, being the only major component uniquely identified that could not easily be replaced, so a machine built in 1970 could have a 1958 original registration. Here's an example, and here's a pic of the bike - built in 2002 with a 700cc+ unit construction engine.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 02:18, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

Rocknrollmancer: Thank you for your sensible comments. The lede cites no sources and for that matter, nor do you (nor me - I've checked my books and I've not found anything yet). If you have a source providing evidence of the first attested implementation of a Triumph engine in a Norton frame, then please do add it to the article.

In the meantime, since there are no sources provided for the "start date" of Tritons, it strikes me as — hmm — least bad option? — to go along with a common sense guess based on editorial judgement (even if that judgement is informed by original research): back in the 1950s, there were plenty of people who tinkered with motorcycles, swapping bits around was commonplace, so it seems unreasonable to assume — in the absence of any sources at all — that Tritons were not made until a decade after the first Featherbed frame. You yourself state that the first one you know about was made in 1955.

A reference providing evidence of the first use of Triton as a "brand name" would be useful to add to the article (please do!), but provides no information about the first date that a Triumph engine was used in a Featherbed frame. Obviously Triton bikes were created before the name was coined and it's the "Triumph engine in Norton Featherbed frame" bit that's the crucial thing, not the naming.

In the case of the Triton I knew - which was named on the V5 as a "<surname> Special" - the frame was a home-made copy of the Norton Featherbed frame: the builder/owner measured up the Featherbed frame at the Earls Court bike show back in 1950-something, made some jigs, and built two frames: one for himself, and one for a mate (who I assume did provide a contribution — this was the 1950s and one wonders how much of the project was strictly kosher, if you catch my drift). He improved the handling with his own design of leading link front forks, and I'm pretty sure he also made the bike's really huge alloy petrol tank (5 gallons, IIRC). Yes, he was a qualified engineer and also a fine craftsman. The year the completed machine was registered was the year the frame was first put on the road. I was told the 500cc Triumph twin engine fitted started life as a generator engine, so that didn't come from a road vehicle either (apparently, the generator engines were better due to having alloy barrels rather than cast iron which was standard for the road bike engines at the time — so I was told). The gearbox was, I seem to recall but might be wrong, a 4 speed Burman with racing ratios and I gather he did race the bike on occasion, long before I met him or the bike. He built a Featherbed copy because it was well established by that time that a tuned-up Triumph engine in a Featherbed frame was a good combination and he reckoned he could make the frame himself. Whether it was strictly a Triton is obviously arguable, but the way I look at it is that a copy of a Norton Featherbed frame might as well be the real thing if it's done well, and it was in this case. But that's not really the point: he did it because he knew about Tritons (the engineering, if not the name); others had made them and his — first registered in 1950 something, memory says 1954 but could well be wrong and I can't check because he's long dead — wasn't the first.

If anyone's got a reliable source, please, please do add it!

Michael F 1967 (talk) 00:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Apologies Michael F 1967 that the government search field is volatile - to get the build details, the reg number HAS481 has to be loaded into the search box manually. The earliest race programme with Triton that I have seen is 1963, but doesn't state who made it. The June, 1964 road test states "The firm has sold well over 50 to date...", naming two mechanics in addition to the proprietor, who was racing for two or three days a week, often. AFAIK, no-one else was using Triton at that early stage as they did not want to unnecessarily promote someone else's product. Three that I can think of were called '** Special' - I would usually write elsewhere triton, without the initial capital. The 'proprietor' states the first he made was when working as an employee of Geoff Monty. A very quick Wikipedia price calculator check shows £9,000 equivalent. I usually do not contribute much here, partly to prevent new media from loading detail into their websites. You may be interested in File:500cc pre-unit Triumph engine and BSA frame.jpg which is a 500 Triumph TR5 engine in a featherbed frame modified by the owner and his motorcycle business owning boss to replicate a Hankin frame by removing the top tubes (you can see some detail of the original here). It was resurrected from an accident damaged frame. I didn't manage to get a date on the pic. rgds,--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 14:30, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Michael F 1967 I have now found another example originally from Real Classic which is now defunct and deadlinked in Ext heading - 1959 Triton T100 - admitted as "Built from bits in 2003...". I've known about this for a long time, remembering that they 'hid' the numberplate in the camera angles. There's more, but will have to wait for another time.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:55, 15 June 2021 (UTC)