Talk:Triple J Hottest 100, 2007

Good work Alex G! Yeh gw mate :) Cheers Alex G (talk) 23:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC) Hi there - just gave you a plug in the Triple J Online Forum for all the great work you are doing today ! Such amazing dedication ! Ciao for now, Maddo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.221.218.168 (talk) 05:52, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sif bluejuice doesn't even have an article. Pwrong (talk) 06:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well it's been five months now and they still don't have one. I'd do it myself but I don't know enough about them. Djskein79 (talk) 19:07, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I wish people would stop spamming the article with incorrect information... Azzaman333 (talk) 07:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

True that! Djskein79 (talk) 07:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah... but MUSE????!!!! Fosnez (talk) 07:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I love Muse, but why is their #1 eligible, since it was a 2006 song? 220.235.173.79 (talk) 15:24, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I agree. It was released in 2006. Can someone find any info to show the single was released in Australia in 2007? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.182.162 (talk) 22:53, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

http://www.inertia-music.com/catalogue/46375/Muse/Knights_Of_Cydonia/ --Irrevenant [ talk ] 04:48, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

See the Muse articles. The album was re-released in Aus in 2007 as cd/dvd. (aside - I agree, loved the song, but it was such a shock to hear it won for 2007!) •Florrie•leave a note• 04:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

We all know Triple J don't mind bending the rules a little once in a while... :) --Skyhawker666 (talk) 14:41, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not that uncommon for a band to release an album that has songs on 2 different hottest 100's, it's just never happened that high. powderfinger in 1998/99 is a good example, they had songs off internationalist in both countdowns. as for muse, knights of cydonia from memory was getting it's most significant airplay in the months around big day out 2007, after the voting for 2006 H100 had started and the countdown isn't limited to songs released in one year, it's just they have it yearly and the songs in that year-ish are included —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cereal killer (talk • contribs) 10:18, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Australian Flags

I had replaced the asterisks with small graphics of the Australian flag (Wikipedia's existing .svg file). This was a ton clearer as to the meaning. It took a little while to find what the * meant. Someone has reverted my edit. I realise it's inconsistent with the older ones but I planned to go back and change them too. Can I get a ruling here, please? The most recent version with the flags can be seen at: http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Triple_J_Hottest_100%2C_2007&oldid=187008545

Thanks. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 04:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, the flags gave an immediate meaning rather then the '*'. I would like to see them returned and added to the previous years' articles. •Florrie•leave a note• 04:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I second that, I'd also like to see the flags of other countries on the other songs, so as not to discriminate. I can assist in this matter as well. --Skyhawker666 (talk) 11:21, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

While that is a nice idea, in practice it probably would confuse the issue. Not sure how many NZ songs are on the list (if any) but it's pretty well impossible to distinguish the NZ flag from the Australian at that size. I think the point is to celebrate the popularity of home-grown product in the poll, but that is just my opinion. •Florrie•leave a note• 12:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

That is an interesting point. For comparison, at the size they were originally placed in as, 24 pixels.
Australian
Canadian (to separate AU and NZ)
New Zealand Flag
--Skyhawker666 (talk) 12:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added the flags in for all tracks, and I'll go back and do the previous years in a few hours. As a matter of interest, do people from London wave England flags or U.K. Flags? --Skyhawker666 (talk) 00:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm, well although I think it looks messy I'll leave it for a bit. It could get complicated. Unlike other things identified with flags in Wikipedia (such as national sporting teams), a bands origins can be ambiguous. What are you going to do for Placebo and System of a Down? -- Chuq (talk) 01:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I did notice a slight issue with [[Regina Spektor] as well, quoting from her article:

Regina Spektor (Russian: Регина Спектор; born 1980 February 18) is a Soviet-born American singer-songwriter and pianist.

I chose American as this is where she became a musician, she is based there, and her first two records were released exclusively in the USA. Placebo i would say England, and System of a Down American. This is the where band originated, regardless of the actual artist's country of birth. Also, not sure if if matters, but I added them in at 25px not 24px as the above example...Here is 25 pixels.
Australian
Canadian (to separate AU and NZ)
New Zealand Flag
--Skyhawker666 (talk) 03:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC) I suppose I would just go off the information on the band's wiki page --Skyhawker666 (talk)

I know I introduced the flags thing, but I actually disagree with having flags for countries other than Australia. One type flag is an icon that stands out but multiple types of flags creates clutter and the value is lost. The Australian flag makes sense 'cos it's an Australian Top 100. Re: Nationality, I say go for where they were a resident (ie. where their home is) at the time of releasing the song. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 12:32, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the impact is lost. Now you have to look through to find the Aus flags, they don't stand out. •Florrie•leave a note• 13:16, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you do flags for this article, wouldn't that mean that all other Hottest 100 articles would have to be converted in the same way? Djskein79 (talk) 10:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I guess the consensus is to take down the flags? or have only Australian flags in there? --Skyhawker666 (talk) 01:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I vote Aus flags only for the reasons given above. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 10:20, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Please, no flags. It's horribly tacky. No other list does it. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 10:22, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, no flags, but obviously there's a push to identify Aussie acts from non aussie ones, so we could simply tablinate the whole thing and have a column indicating the country of origin, and for aussie ones only, shade the cell's background slightly. Anything else, leave the same colour. The words will indicate which country they're from, but the shading will set them apart from Aussies (which will still have "Australia" anyway, as well as shading). What do you think? Have a look at the shading in articles like Split Enz discography or List of Powderfinger awards to see how shading is done and how it can be applied. --rm 'w avu 10:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I like the Aus flags, but I'd be happy with a table. Here's a sample one...

Position	Artist/Group	Song Title
1	Muse	Knights of Cydonia
2	Silverchair	Straight Lines
3	Kings of Leon	On Call
4	John Butler Trio	Better Than
5	Faker	This Heart Attack
6	Foo Fighters	The Pretender

It'd be nice to have it sortable - sort by artist etc. •Florrie•leave a note• 13:01, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I really like to have a table like that one above for the list! I like the use of a colour for the Aussie artists. I've got a list here which lists the top 100 ARIA end of year chart with the Aussie artists highlighted in blue. Do you think that'll be good for the list? RaNdOm26 (talk) 22:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

If you *do* add tables (anyone), consider it your responsibility to add these to *every* JJJ countdown article. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 08:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I found that listing the Big Day Out acts into a tables ended up working very neatly, and though it took me quite a few days to get it there, it's all done and has been replicated for BDO just gone. And Florrie, that's basically exactly what I meant with my suggestion, and so I'd wholeheartedly endorse that being implemented across the board with hottest 100 lists. With something that neatly designed, we could even start looking to nominate some of these lists for FL. I would still encourage a column with country of origin, otherwise the green cells/Australian bands might just look a little peculiar. --rm 'w avu 09:40, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I have now completed a table with the Australian artists highlighted in my sandbox, seeing as a few people have supported removing the flag icons. I don't think a mention of international artists is needed for this. I've now added it into mainspace, if you don't like the blue, you can always change it. But my question is if there is anyone who is not satisfied with the list change and whether it should be implemented for the previous years? RaNdOm26 (talk) 11:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

While I didn't like the idea of flags for all countries, I think each country of origin could be included in the table. And make it sortable. I'm partial to the green for Australia. And yes, to make the articles consistent, it'd have to be for all the Hottest 100 lists. •Florrie•leave a note• 12:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Why would you need a sortable table for such a list? dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 09:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Not needed at all, but I love sortable lists. See the artists/groups with more than one entry, sort by country...um, alphabetical list of song titles... I'd have to ask why wouldn't you want it sortable? After all, it's only one little bit of code. •Florrie•leave a note• 11:19, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

If you give me some time, I'll gladly create tables for all the countdowns. Alex G (talk) 06:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'm done with 2007. Feel free to fix up any errors. Can I have the go ahead to do the rest? Or are we still undecided? Alex G (talk) 07:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Alex G, I had just made a table which now includes a column for the Country of Origin. Please have a look and comment. It's here. RaNdOm26 (talk) 07:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Ok, how about this, we use your table for this one, and I'll use your table as a template and create some of the older lists for punishment? By the way, from 88 to 92, you have the artist and track around the wrong way. Alex G (talk) 07:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's alright, and I see you're enthusiastic to put it into mainspace. If you're sure you're okay with the layout, you may like to ask the others for their opinion and then begin changing with the previous lists. However, I be more than happy to make the effort for this as well. Thanks for finding my mistake too! RaNdOm26 (talk) 07:40, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh Christ. I feel like an idiot. Sorry RaNdOm26, I didn't realise you'd already done it. Alex G (talk) 07:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, having the country of origin included in the table isn't a bad idea, as it improves the readability for distinguishing between Australian and interational acts, without any loss of information, as opposed to the flag icons; so it's a great idea! :) And, green is better too. RaNdOm26 (talk) 14:34, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

So, when are the other years being done? dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 08:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

working on them right now, should be finished on Sunday.. Alex G (talk) 10:19, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good, enjoy. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂0) 10:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Are we sure we should swap the artists and songs? Not that its major, but it can save time making the tables as the current lists are already listed as artists before songs. RaNdOm26 (talk) 11:12, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

The artist shouldn't be listed before the song, which is why I changed it. I've also obviously implemented the country column now. The reason the artists should not be listed first is that the work is the item that's been selected, not the artist, otherwise it would either be impossible or just poor reasoning (i.e. stupidity) to allow multiple entries. It's the songs that matter most. And this should be corrected for all of the years too, and I empathise that there's lots of work involved, but we shouldn't avoid doing the work just because it's difficult, cumbersome or time consuming when it's a matter of correcting something. --rm 'w avu 11:18, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Hah, ok, I've just finished the one for 1989, but now I'll have to redo it, that's cool though. I can do that Alex G (talk) 11:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks great! And thanks for the sortability. I've already had a play. •Florrie•leave a note• 11:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I have the same problem with the green highlighting as I did with the original asterisks - it's not immediately obvious what it means. I still think it'd benefit from the flags, but with the country listed and the table sortable that becomes a nice touch rather than a necessity --Irrevenant [ talk ] 11:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Never mind - I moved the note to above the table which fixes that problem. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 11:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Australian Flags

This sounds like the ban on flags at the Big Day Out...seriously though, you can set yourself up for a lot of work, debate and fuss over which flags to include. Should "Stronger" be listed as a French (for Daft Punk) as well as an American (Kayne West) song? What about groups comprising of artists of different nationalities? Kransky (talk) 11:58, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Stronger is listed twice this year, once as being by KW, which is noted as American, and the other by DP, and is indicated as being French. For composite groups where origin is dubious (such as Crowded House), it's a matter of going with how the band represents themselves (in the case of Crowded House, they're an Australian band, but are led by a kiwi and have 2/4 American members, which does make matters difficult to justify calling Australia home, but they do nevertheless). A band like the Travelling Wilburys could also be difficult, because it's intentionally an international supergroup. For that, you'd go with wherever they recorded (in that case, the USA), because often those kinds of groups are put together by a music producer, and usually they'll record in their own home town. Whatever the case, there's almost always a simple one-answer response to the origin of an artist. There's a russian born American girl in the list, but she's listed as American because she started her career there. --rm 'w avu 22:31, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

That was part of my reasoning for being against flags. In other articles in which flags are used, they are usually sports teams, governments etc. which are clearly a part or representative of one country - no ambiguity about it. If you have a football player who parents are Ukranian and Croatian, was born in Australia, but plays for Australia, then Australia is obviously the defining country. Bands/artists are more ambiguous. People can be born in one country, grow up in another, be "discovered" in another, live in another, record albums in another... -- Chuq (talk) 00:47, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

The flags were given up on 5 February! All lists use text to identify nationalities and several nationalities can be recognised, as with Trout, Neneh Cherry & Michael Stipe - Sweden & United States on the Triple J Hottest 100, 1993 list. This could also have been accomplished with flags but, as mentioned previously, that idea was squashed earlier. •Florrie•leave a note• 01:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Trivia

Where possible I've tried to incorporate the trivia comments into the text as per WP:TRIVIA. One comment is now a footnote and one remains under the 'trivia' header - the Living End reference. •Florrie•leave a note• 09:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought the Joy Division bit was Trivia.....oh well, I'm fairly new to this I guess. --Skyhawker666 (talk) 14:43, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it is trivia, but wikipedia discourages sections of 'trivia' which is why I've incorporated the bits and pieces into the text or footnotes. There's just the one left and I don't know what to do with it! Cheers, •Florrie•leave a note• 15:01, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Artists with multiple entries

Florrie has pointed out that the sortable option used for the tables makes this "Artists with multiple entries" list a little redundant. While the sortable table lists the same artists together to show the number of entries, it doesn't actually list the artists in the order of the most number of entries, like this list does. Any comments about this? RaNdOm26 (talk) 08:18, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

You forgot to link to the table - here it is •Florrie•leave a note• 08:28, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

ETA - no, I don't think the list is redundant, I don't think it needs to be replaced with another table. I think the list is sufficient. Sorry for the confusion. •Florrie•leave a note• 08:30, 9 February 2008 (UTC)