Talk:Trevor Ford

Footballers

Before making any changes to articles, please read the MOS at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Players on how articles should be laid out. These are the standard guidelines that have been reached via consensus and used on literally tens of thousands of pages. Kosack (talk) 17:17, 6 May 2017 (UTC) Also, linking footballer to association football is not an WP:EASTEREGG. Kosack (talk) 17:22, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

A link is prima facie an easter egg link if you cannot reasonably create a redirect page that does the same thing. Footballer redirects to Football player -- redirecting by internal link to association football is an easter egg link.

Let's look at the gammar of the sentence: "Trevor Ford ... was a Welsh professional footballer and Wales international." The "and" there means that the sentence should logically be able to be written as "Trevor Ford ... was a Wales international." Does that make sense to you? How is that even grammatical? Also, a claim that it is "standard formatting" is not enough. Show that it is standard formatting. Link to the specific guidelines, or link to other articles that use the same formatting. I have seen no other football player's article with such an ungrammatical lead sentence. So far, you have just been making the claim without any backup. LK (talk) 01:04, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

BTW, since you have included this same sentence structure in a number of articles, I'm starting a discussion about this issue here on the Wikiproject Football. Please move the discussion there. LK (talk) 01:53, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Trevor Ford/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Liam E. Bekker (talk · contribs) 20:25, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Kosack, I'll be conducting the review of this page. Please see below issues that I've picked up. Where our opinions/ideas clash please let me know so that we can try to hash out a solution. It looks a lot but most of my concerns are minor and shouldn't take too long to resolve. Please tick each issue off or comment next to/below the point on which it is raised for ease of reference.

Lede

Para 1

• ...during a career that lasted fifteen years → ...during a career that spanned fifteen years. - Done
• Welsh national team → Wales national team (I am aware of WP:FOOTY discussion on this matter) - this may be a matter of preference but I see this version used more generally. - Done

Para 2

• Remove duplicate "as" at the start of the sentence. - Done
• clubs → club's - Done
• The sentence is very long. Try and break it into two. - Done

Para 3

• Sentence 2 needs some work. Perhaps simplified to say "At Sunderland, Ford formed a strike partnership with England international Len Shackleton,"...and then flow into the next sentence as it does. - Done
• Sentence 3: his → Ford's - Done
• Sentence 4 seems a bit long/mouthy. Try and re-word it / break it into two for ease of reading. - Done
• Sentence 5 repeats the phrase where he spent three seasons before which is used in the sentence before. Try and change the wording a bit there as well. - Done
• Sentence 5: Include Romford alongside Newport at end of sentence. - Done

Early life

Para 1

• ...Trevor sr → ...Trevor Sr. - Done

Para 2

• Sentence 1: Perhaps link plimsoll - I had no idea what it was when I read it and other readers may be equally uninformed. - Done
• Sentence 2 suggestive improvement: After moving into secondary school, Ford met teacher David Benyon, a prominent figure in youth football in the area and was included in the Swansea boys team which was managed by Benyon. → After moving into secondary school, Ford met teacher David Benyon, who was a prominent figure in youth football in the area and included him in the Swansea boys team which he managed. - Done
• Sentence 4: "and" is missing before "returned to playing..." - Done

Para 3

• Sentence 1: Delete "as a teenager,..." - Done
• Sentence 2: Swansea Tow → Swansea Town - Done

Early career

Para 1

• Sentence 2: ....and the team gained some success in the competitions which attracted scouts from several clubs → ...where he attracted the attention of scouts from several clubs. - Done
• Sentence 4: Full stop after "war". Start next sentence with "However,". - Done

Para 2

• Sentence 2: Link manager to Manager (association football) - Done
• Sentence 2: The flow of the sentence seems to be about Green so I would change "...offering 17 year old Ford an amateur contract in 1940 before signing his first professional contract..." → offering 17 year old Ford an amateur contract in 1940 before signing him to his first professional contract... - Done
• Sentence 6: Swans →Swansea - Done
• Sentence 6: "...and Tommy Dodds → "...plus Tommy Dodds" - Done
• Sentence 6: Unlink Tommy Dodds - page doesn't exist.
• Sentence 7 could probably be removed altogether. It doesn't seem to have had an important bearing on his career and otherwise seems like transfer speculation. - Done

Sunderland

Para 1

• Sentence 2: Link Daily Mail
• Sentence 4: "He was a footballing celebrity" → "He was seen as a footballing celebrity" (tone seems less biased)
• Sentence 4: "...and had made 128 appearances for Villa between January 1947 and October 1950 scoring 61 goals." → "having made 128 appearances for Villa between January 1947 and October 1950 and scored 61 goals."

Para 2

• Sentence 1: Link hat-trick
• Sentence 1: Insert comma after "one goal"
• Sentence 3 suggestive improvement: Full stop after price-tag. New sentence to read → Ford revealed that he was relieved that the record had been broken, describing the fee as "weighing heavy on his shoulders"
• Sentence 5: link season to 1952–53 Football League
• Sentence 5: Is the bit on Nat Lofthouse necessary?

Later career

Para 1

• Sentence 1: Comma after "high spending"
• Sentence 1: Ford's → his and He → Ford
• Sentence 1: ..."a club record..." → ...which was a club record...
• Sentence 2: "The club" → Cardiff and "Cardiff manager" → club manager
• Sentence 3: Remove the "We want Ford" part of the quotation, and continue with the club desperate...

Para 2

• Sentence 5: Full stop after "1957" - remove "but" and start new sentence With the suspension...
• Sentence 6: "clubs" → PSV's

International career

Para 2

• Sentence 3 needs a reference
• Sentence 5: Comma after "first"

Hi Liam, thanks very much for the review. I've made a quick start and fixed everything down to the Sunderland section. The only one I would query is removing the red link to Dodds. As Dodds would pass WP:NFOOTBALL, I believed the use of a red link was allowed by WP:REDLINK to encourage creation. I'll crack on with the rest as soon as possible. Thanks again. Kosack (talk) 22:15, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

@Liam E. Bekker: I've fixed all of the issues you raised regarding the article apart from the red link comment I made above. Let me know your thoughts. Kosack (talk) 14:17, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi Kosack, awesome work. From what I can tell you are correct about WP:REDLINK. I'll have another proper read through tomorrow afternoon but the only other issue I've picked up is the opening line for Sunderland. I'm a bit hesitant to open a paragraph with "However..." → Could that be changed to something like "Aston Villa were, however, never able..." - You can then also remove Aston Villa from the end of the sentence.

@Liam E. Bekker: Sorted that issue. Kosack (talk) 18:42, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for your speedy edits Kosack. The page has now been promoted GA status. Cheers, Liam E. Bekker (talk) 19:16, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Review checklist

• Comment on requirement 5 below: There was recent disagreement on the page after GA Nomination. I am satisfied, however, that the issues raised have been sufficiently handled by discussion on WP:FOOTY.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail: