Talk:Translation (Mormonism)

Redirect?

This seems to just be a copy of List_of_people_who_went_to_heaven_alive#In_Mormonism. Would a redirect to this subsection be more appropraite? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr Minchin (talk • contribs) 15:21, 8 August 2007

I don't know, because it's clear that the LDS Church teaches that some persons were translated but didn't go to heaven alive. It's more like the list at List of people who went to heaven alive is a copy of what is here, since it includes information about people who were translated but did not go to heaven alive (Three Nephites, John the Apostle). –SESmith 21:34, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Article not correct

I don't believe that this article provides accurate information. "In the theology of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, translation refers to being physically changed by God from a mortal human being to an immortal human being. A person that has been translated is referred to as a translated being. A translated being is akin to a resurrected person with the exception that a translated being has never died." However,

" 38 Therefore, that they might not taste of death there was a achange wrought upon their bodies, that they might not bsuffer pain nor sorrow save it were for the sins of the world.
39 Now this change was not equal to that which shall take place at the last day; but there was a change wrought upon them, insomuch that Satan could have no power over them, that he could not atempt them; and they were bsanctified in the flesh, that they were choly, and that the powers of the earth could not hold them.
40 And in this state they were to remain until the judgment day of Christ; and at that day they were to receive a greater change, and to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens." (3 Ne. 28:38-40)
Translated beings are not like ressurected beings, they will be resurected and go through something akin to death, but without pain at Christ's second coming.

Also, "Some of these individuals have been admitted into heaven to await their formal resurrection, while others have been permitted to remain upon the earth until that time." People that died before Christ's death were resurrected when he died.

" 50 ¶ Jesus, when he had cried again with aa loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the aveil of the temple was brent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did cquake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the agraves were opened; and many bbodies of the csaints dwhich slept earose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the aholy city, and appeared unto many." (Mathew 27:50-53)

Everyone translated after that will be ressurected at Christ's second coming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.135.76.177 (talk) 00:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Name change: Translation (LDS Church) --> Translation (Mormonism)

I have renamed this article to Translation (Mormonism). This isn't specific to the LDS Church, as the fundamentalists believe this also. I'm not sure what the Community of Christ thinks about it, but I think that most of the theological discussion here has been by Mormons. This name change will better conform with the LDS Naming conventions. If anyone has any objections, we can discuss, and can always move it back. COGDEN 21:02, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Anna Lee Skarin readmitted to the church

In the section talking about Anna Lee Skarin, I removed the single sentence that read 'She was readmitted to the church only after her death.' as this is contrary to LDS theology. According to LDS theology, in order to be readmited to the LDS church again, a person would have to repent for the reason of excommunication, attend a disciplinary meeting that would reinstate them, in this case get approval from the first presidency, and get rebaptized. Since the person is dead, they would not be able to attend the disciplinary meeting, or get rebaptized. Determining the state of repentance of a dead person would also stop this from happening. An excommunicated person might be able to get baptized for the dead if approved by the first presidency, however this does not reinstate them into the church. It is believed that this will only give them the rights to accept the ordinance of baptism in the afterlife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lothimos (talk • contribs) 19:38, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Alma the Younger

If I am not very much mistaken, the suggestion in the Book of Mormon is ambiguous: Mormon is apparantly not entirely sure whether Alma the Younger was translated or simply went missing some other way. Could we add references to point to views of specific denominations on this matter? -- 80.42.32.236 (talk) 09:57, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Use of the word "translation"

Usually in Mormonism, when "translation" is mentioned, it has to do with Joseph Smith "translating" the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, the Bible, etc. These "translations" were unlike what is normally thought of as language translation, and it's wholly unrelated to the meaning of translation discussed in this article. I'm wondering if we need a more precise terminology or disambiguator. Without knowing, I would have thought this article was about Smith's process of translating texts. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 23:32, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

The word "translate" in English comes from two Latin words: "trans", meaning "across", and "ferre", meaning "to carry, to bear or to undergo" (the principal parts of "ferre" are "fero, ferre, tuli, latum" - it's an irregular verb - and we use the supine "latum" to form the noun in English). In other words, the original meaning of "translate" is something like "to carry across". We see this usage in some religious denominations today: bishops in the Church of England, for example, are "translated" from one see to another when they are promoted. When we "translate" a text, we are carrying the meaning across from one language to another. And when a person is "translated" by God they are carried across the gap between mortality and immortality. That's how I've always understood it.

What we also know is that this "translation" does not in any way affect the mind or body, except where these changes are necessary to fit them for immortality. So a mortal body decays, and a mortal mind becomes forgetful, but an immortal body becomes perfect whilst retaining its physicality, and an immortal mind becomes pure of thought and persistent of memory. This is why the stories of being met by the Three Nephites always describe them as being young, handsome and strong, quick of mind, and able to remember times far before the present day. The gap over which the translated person is carried by the will of God is the gap of imperfection - the amount by which the mortal being falls short of immortality. RomanSpa (talk) 04:54, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah—what I am really looking for is some discussion on how to resolve the problem that "Translation (Mormonism)" could be interpreted as meaning this topic (the translation of a physical body) or the process Joseph Smith used in producing the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham, and the JS Inspired Version of the Bible. So in other words, do we need some sort of article rename proposal to resolve the possible ambiguity? I realize the word can have two or more meanings, which are related at their core, which is really the root of the issue here. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 05:27, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Personally I'd be inclined just to live with the ambiguity. There is, in any case, an additional complication: what a LDS calls translation is not what some other religious groupings call translation. Consider the translation of Elijah: in the LDS case it is the change from a mortal to an immortal body, which happens at the same time as he is taken from this world; for others, it is his transport by a whirlwind directly into heaven, with the necessary change of his body being unmentioned or glossed over. "The translation of Elijah" has one meaning for a LDS, and another meaning for other people. So even if we find a way of meeting your concern, there is still an ambiguity. There comes a point at which we just have to assume that our readers can grasp the idea that a word can have two (or more) meanings. RomanSpa (talk) 07:57, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that your "there is still an ambiguity" concern applies, since the article is disambiguated with "(Mormonism)", thus indicating that we are are talking about the Mormon meaning of the word. That's why it's disambiguated—to resolve that particular ambiguity. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:28, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Fair point. RomanSpa (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Being a Mormon, when I hear the word translation in a religious context, the first meaning that comes to my head is that of ascension. Internally I think this is a more common use than the conversion of language. If the word were translating, then it would be language conversion. Translated is a toss up and would depend on the context. So translation (Mormonism) makes perfect sense for those who are Mormon. However, most who are unfamiliar with the use are probably going to associate it with the language conversion process first. My recommendation would be to leave it as is, because it is a proper usage within Mormonism, and use the about tag to add a note at the top that says "For translation of the Book of Mormon see Book of Mormon translation" or whatever the appropriate article would be. Dromidaon (talk) 18:06, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Sounds wise to me. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 21:29, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Me too. What's interesting is that "the first meaning that comes to [your] head is that of ascension", because that's what I think a non-LDS would think (see above), but "ascension" (which in one case seems to be called "assumption" by Roman Catholics) in this context is not the same as "translation": the three Nephites have not ascended, but have been translated. I used to get confused over this too, I think largely because I have vivid memories of being asked to draw a picture of Elijah and the fiery chariot as a child! RomanSpa (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Ascension was just the closest single word that I could come up with. It was that or something longer like the process of being physically changed into an immortal state. I opted for short. =] Dromidaon (talk) 17:07, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm ashamed to admit this, but the impact of Buffy means that I now sometimes think of "ascension" as "turning into a huge snake-monster". Sorry. :-) RomanSpa (talk) 17:24, 12 June 2014 (UTC)