Talk:Tracey Emin/Archive 1

Claim To Be Descended from Boswell Gypsy Clan

Towards the end of the BBC programme on Emin: 'Who Do You Think You Are?", a genealogist presented a family tree of her 'gypsy family', and stated that her ancestors had married into 'very important gypsy families' - the only one being an ancestor called 'Hester' who was said to have married into the Boswell Clan (see wiki entry on 'King of the Gypsies'). However, on the tree, the name 'Boswell' had a question mark next to it.. Why do all celebrities with 'gypsy roots' seem to be directly linked with the 'King of the Gypsies'whenever a TV show is made? What were the sources of information for the tree shown in her case - there don't appear to be any cited in the entire programme: moreover, there were several rather large question marks over the veracity of information /surname of her own GGGrandfather Joseph, let alone his 'ancestors'. Special:Contributions/212.139.104.163|212.139.104.163]] (talk) 21:04, 12 October 2011 (UTC)TBoswell212.139.104.163 (talk) 21:04, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication ?

On 24 May, 2004, a fire in a storage warehouse destroyed many works from the Saatchi collection, including Everyone I have ever slept with 1963-95, The Last Thing I Said Is Don't Leave Me Here and The Hut.

I wonder if the last two here named are the same thing. See for example [1] (which claims to be The Hut) and [2] (which claims to be "The last thing I said to you is don't leave me here" - note there's "to you" in there, by the way). Does anybody know for sure? --Camembert

The Hut is the beach hut. The Last Thing I Said Is Don't Leave Me Here is a photograph of Tracey Emin, naked, curled up on the floor inside a wooden room -- Daisy

The matter–of–fact statement regarding the spontaneous fire does not convey the enormity of the tragedy. Future humanity has been deprived of the fruit and flower of Royal Academic art. This is a catastrophic loss for people everywhere, not only in Britain. The understatement in the article does not fully express the horror of the cultural loss.Lestrade 18:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)Lestrade[reply]

It doesn't seem like anyone really cared that much, not even the artists. 76.105.157.77 (talk) 11:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Last Thing I Said Is Don't Leave Me Here

The Last Thing I Said Is Don't Leave Me Here was not destroted in a fire it is currentlyy on show at the National Portrait Gallery in london unless of course this is a reprint -- User:195.92.67.65 14:49, 26 October 2005 (Comment moved from article page. -- Solipsist 19:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC))[reply]

Plagarism

This entire text appears very very simlar if not exactly that same as this page on Tracy Emin's web site: http://www.tracey-emin.co.uk/tracey-emin-biography.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.23.22.167 (talk • contribs) 10:28, 3 February 2006

Surprisingly, it rather looks like the opposite is the case. Emin's web site is probably using the content from here without crediting Wikipedia or honouring GFDL. If you look at the original article written in 2003, there is no mention of the warehouse fire, because it hadn't occured. That sentence was add by User:Pigsonthewing on 26 May 2004, but appears word for word on the Emin site although copied from a later version that mentions the The Last Thing I Said.

There are other clues, such as the opening sentence being in Wikipedia house style for biographies. The date on the warehouse fire being written as '24 May 2004' which isn't typical UK formatting. And most particularly the external reference links as in the sentence

Two years later, in 1999, Emin was shortlisted for the Turner Prize and exhibited My Bed [1] at the Tate Gallery.

The [1] after 'My Bed' makes no sense on Emin's web site, but here it is an external link reference that I added.

That suggests the original version probably wasn't a copyvio, and whoever maintains Emin's site would appear to have copied a version of the Wikipedia article sometime after May 2004. -- Solipsist 11:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the copyvio notice that I added in light of Solipsist's evidence. Capitalistroadster 23:23, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Official site

The official site for Emin is http://www.whitecube.com/html/artists/tre/tre_frset.html which is Jay Joplin's gallery site for the White Cube which represents Emin and many other YBAs. The site at http://www.tracey-emin.co.uk is not official and is one of a set owned by a third party, the links at the bottom show the rest of the collection. I've added the white cube link to the top of the links, hopefully no-one will have a problem with that. PhilipPage 22:51, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As she is represented by the White Cube gallery, that seems entirely correct. Tyrenius 23:26, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like tracey-emin.co.uk is run by Simon Phillips, as discussed in this BBC news story. It is also still including the Wikipedia biography without acknowledgement and failing to comply with GFDL. Perhaps we should just delete the link. -- Solipsist 11:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is necessary for compliance? Tyrenius 23:50, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Reusing_Wikipedia_content and Wikipedia:GFDL_Compliance for examples of sites that are getting it right and wrong. But at its simplest level they need to acknowledge the original authors. -- Solipsist 10:50, 22 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tracey Emin's Official site is now Emininternational.com --90.196.144.130 (talk) 17:18, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Emin-Strangeland.jpg

Image:Emin-Strangeland.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Literary Critic of English?

Could someone explain why Emin is classed as this, and could she be removed? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.116.162 (talk) 22:43, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's a mystery. Removed. Ty 23:27, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Tattoo Show and her negative feelings toward Tattoos

I'd never heard of Tracey Emin before 10 minutes ago when reading this article about tattoos from liz jones. [3] in the article jones says:

As the multi-tattooed artist Tracey Emin summed up in an exhibition called the Tattoo Show - in which she displayed photographs of her own tattoos accompanied by handwritten text telling of her regret that the mutilation on her body constantly reminds her of her old self and past mistakes - it is all a load of self-indulgent b******s.

This seems to be confirmed by this article [4] which says

For their owners, tattoos are invariably markers of pivotal moments -- that wild night, or the decision to join the army. Who better to meditate on these instants than Tracey Emin, queen of self-obsession? Her piece, Tattoo, is made up of photographs of her own tattoos and a hand-written text telling of her regret at their imposing reminders.

72.222.193.42 (talk) 04:27, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Personal Life" section

This section in the article seems rather odd. Usually, this section in a Wikipedia article is about family / relationships / children... this is the first time I've seen the fact that somebody has had an abortion mentioned in this section. Why is it mentioned? Emin may have discussed these abortions in the past, but that is not a reason to mention them here. Millions of people in the world have had abortions... they are very private and often physiologically painful experiences. Thousands of people who have articles about them in Wikipedia have had abortions, but their articles invariably do not mention these abortions... If it is felt that the article needs a mention of works that Emin did on pregnancy, it certainly should not be included in the "personal" section. If the works are considered minor works, don't mention them. It's just strangely insensitive and also unnecessary (it gives no insight into Emin) to mention these abortions here. 86.177.179.172 (talk) 18:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree with you except that abortion comes up at other places in the article. I think it would be a tough argument to make that it is too irrelevant. But let's see if others weigh in with an opinion. Bus stop (talk) 18:33, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers - I don't think (and didn't say) they were irrelevant.. I was inferring / saying that this sort of thing is unusual in the "Personal life" section. The article has already mentioned the abortion subject (and possible subtext) in some of Emin's work. so mentioning it again in the "Personal life" section is A. repetition, and B. in a sense, the wrong place. Just because Emin has been honest and open about this subject, it does not mean therefore that anyone discussing her can also do the same. If other articles on notable people do not mention their abortions in the "Personal life" sections, then it follows that whoever compiled / wrote the article changed the usual Wikipedia article style and form because the article was about Emin. Thanks again for considering my point - however, I don't think that Emin's experiences with abortion are irrelevant: I'm just surprised to find them in the "Personal life" section. For some reason, it just seems insensitive. Her past notable relationships, for example (Mat Collishaw, Billy Childish, Carl Freedman - according to the article) would (one would imagine) go in that section. And then if there is not really any other relevant information (as perhaps these relationships are already mentioned elsewhere in the article) then perhaps there is no need at all for a "Personal life" section... 86.177.179.172 (talk) 19:43, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed it for the simple reason that it is already covered in the article, so this is just an unnecessary duplication. However, if there were to be a full "personal life" section, then there is no obvious reason whey this would not be part of it, as it has been covered extensively and on numerous occasions in the media (and it was also, as it happens, her choice to give it that publicity). There is no change to "the usual Wikipedia article style and form": the usual form is to follow sources. For most people who have abortions the subject is kept private by the person themselves. Ty 20:43, 9 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. You seem to be suggesting that once this information is public, it is fair game to repeat it in an article. Respectfully, you say "there is no obvious reason" why this kind of thing should not be included in the "personal life" section. I assume that means that you're now going to rush off and add the personal surgical / pregnancy history details of the women in the lists in the following links onto their Wikipedia pages? Because I after looking in Google for a list of famous women that have had abortions (it took about 2 minutes), e.g. http://www.prolifeamerica.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=3417&highlight_key=y I then briefly looked at their Wikipedia pages and found that sometimes their abortions had not been mentioned in their "personal life" sections... funny, but some of the writers of these articles had disgracefully omitted this fact from the woman's page! Information that you obviously feel to be of importance to the public. Here: http://www.amiannoying.com/(S(4uoyqmupu511rfnstquj1nvl))/collection.aspx?collection=239 is another list of women who have had abortions, some of whom have this fact omitted from their Wikipedia page. I'm sure you'll go off and fix that, in the public's interest. Perhaps you might want to read this: http://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Manifesto_of_the_343 ...you mention that: "For most people who have abortions the subject is kept private by the person themselves". May I respectfully suggest that you consider for a minute why this is, before you say that there is "no reason" why not to mention this in an article about someone. Another article here : http://www.msmagazine.com/fall2006/abortionmag.asp may also enlighten you as to how sensitive a subject this is: imagine you are a female singer, for example. Your ex-boyfriend sells a "kiss-and-tell" story about your relationship with him to a newspaper. One of the events mentioned in the article is a painful abortion you had. This causes you great disquiet. Now imagine that somebody like you comes along and writes the Wikipedia article about that female singer. You feel that there is "no reason" not to include the abortion story. The fact that you can not think of a reason is one of the differences between you and me. Respectfully, think about it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.179.172 (talk) 00:58, 10 April 2010 (UTC) Oops, forgot to sign above... 86.177.179.172 (talk) 01:02, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The content for each article is assessed on its own merits in relation to the subject per WP:NPOV. This page is to discuss content for this article: see WP:TPG. If you have a general point to make, take it to a general forum, such as WP:VP. If you have a point to make about the content of other articles, then take it to the talk pages of those articles. Ty 01:35, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. However, I used other Wikipedia articles as examples merely to strengthen and underpin my point about this article. 86.177.179.172 (talk) 02:29, 10 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Some women have abortions for medical reasons. Many others have abortions because they can't be bothered to use a contraceptive. Which category Emin falls into is fairly obvious and self-evident. The reference to her abortions should stay. 86.187.163.10 (talk)

"panelist and speaker"

I think this piece needs not to be in the lead, but somewhere else in the article (see WP:LEAD and WP:MOSBIO). If anybody comes up with any idea of where to put it, then please realise it, thanks. Catgut (talk) 23:41, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction as an english artist

The article refers to her as an English artist in the introduction. This should be changed to either a 'British artist' (in regards to her nationality) or a half English half Turkish Cypriot artist (in regards to her ethnicity). Anyone who has seen Emin's work will know that she has a strong attachment to her Turkish Cypriot background and it is therefore not correct to just refer to her as English. See for example this video which she herself explains what she sees herself to be: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8otrncAyD8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.11.143 (talk) 11:58, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have include the Turkish letter (ı rather than i in Karima). Ironically karıma means 'for my wife' in Turkish.Turco85 (Talk) 18:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See rest of Wikipedia. The English description is not referring to Ethnicity - England is a country within the UK. People from England are English. Try changing Scottish and Welsh description to the less informative British first and see what reaction you get.

It is not the use of 'English' that is incorrect, but the use of 'artist'. The internet is as replete with illustrations demonstrating her primary school / 'special needs' artistic attainment as her exhibitions are with demonstrations of other people's stitching or fabrication, paid for by Emin.

92.5.61.36 (talk) 23:05, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But there is no such thing as English citizenship, it's British. Since English is being used I have plaed Turkish Cypriot alongside it given that she is half English half Turkish Cypriot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.9.186 (talk) 15:46, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no such thing as Scottish or Welsh citizenship either, yet all articles on Scottish and Welsh people on Wikipedia are described as such. Describing Emin as English isn't referring to ethnicity (which doesn't belong in the lead), but clearly where she comes from.

92.5.46.138 (talk) 16:17, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism Section

Why isn't there one? She is easily one of the most despised of the new wave artists in the UK and in many critics minds - is easily one of the most overated artists in modern times. I mean we could dig 100's of articles taking apart her work and just as many praising it, I think this article needs more balance as it appears to be more of a fan blog than a neutrally written piece on a highly controversial uk artist. Love her or loath her, she is highly unpopular and when a warehouse full of her art burnt down, most the papers and readers were happy about it. That is some serious lack of respect. Reaper7 (talk) 23:45, 16 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In the interest of accuracy, she should really be referred to as an 'artist', rather than as an artist, since the former is how most of the 'real art' (as opposed to 'Brit "Art"') world views her. 86.160.209.12 (talk)

Appointment of Professor of Drawing

I heard on the news today that she has just been appointed Professor of Drawing, and is one of the first two female professors at the college where she is now professor of drawing. She has said that she is thrilled to be teaching again. Unfortunately, I do not remember the college where this is, but if any one does remember (or know) where it it is, it would be good if it could go in the article, as that would help to make this article up-to-date. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:14, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think you'll find it's the Royal Academy. I think you'll also find that the pinnacle of Tracey's drawing would embarrass the average five-year old (search Google if you aren't familiar with her output). The Royal Academy, of course, is not at the same level as the average five-year old. In fact it has become adept at asserting its Special Needs status. But, looking on the bright side, (as those Pythons who might have invented the 'Emin, Artist' character would have done), she does give us a laugh, poor dear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.160.209.12 (talk) 20:35, 14 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs updating

It refers to exhibitions that were current five years ago, in the present tense. I don't have time to research the facts neeeded to update, but wanted to make note of this fact!

Thanks, Tah x Thlaylia (talk) 05:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Severak statements about maximum prices need correcting -- but I don't know which are wrong

Two items with live cites appear to be superseded by two other items (+ a repeat) which only have dead cites. Someone who knows where to look can probably determine the correct facts easily, but it is not a field I understand. There appear also to be minor pricing discrepancies between different cites, but that may merely be my ignorance of how auction prices are described.

In #Neon, "her neon Keep Me Safe reached the highest price ever made for one of her neon works of over £60,000" [live cite dated 22 Jun 07] [repeated in #Charity work, with "(at that time)" added, making that statement presumably correct, even if the original statement in #Neon is out of date (see below)]

In #Fabric (repeated verbatim at #Charity work), "In June 2007 ... Emin donated a piece of artwork, a handsewn blanket called Star Trek Voyager to be auctioned .... The piece of artwork sold for £800,000" [same dead cite for both mentions]

In #Charity_work, "On Valentine's Day 2008, Emin donated a red, heart-shaped neon artwork called I Promise To Love You (2007) for a charity auction .... The work sold for a record price $220,000" [dead cite]

In #Art market prices, "Emin's auction record, set at Christie's, London, in December 2010, is £130,000 (hammer price), paid for her 2004 appliqué blanket It's The Way We Think." [live cite which, however, does NOT mention whether it was a record, and states the price as $247,197/£157,250 -- I don't know much about art prices -- is the discrepancy with the "hammer price" due to auctioneer's charges or similar?]

In #Art market prices, "Only one other of her works has ever fetched more than £100,000, the red neon light installation I promise to love you, which fetched £102,040 (US$200,000) at Sotheby's, New York, in February 2008" [no cite -- is the discrepancy with the $220,000 mentioned in #Charity_work due to auctioneer's charges or similar?]

So in short, if the items with the dead cites can be justified, the other items mentioned need correcting, and if not, those with the dead cites should be removed. Enginear (talk) 01:47, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Facial paralysis?

Whenever I have seen her on TV, she usually moved only one side of her face when she was talking. This reminds me very much of Sylvester Stallone who attributes his face asymmetry to a birth defect. Has there ever been an explanation confirmed for Emin? --Tim Landscheidt (talk) 00:33, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Conservative Party (UK) people

Tracey Emin has been repeatedly added to this category. Once again read the wikipedia article and read the category as it is there for supporters! Do not revert this again! Now there is an interview source that she voted Tory, and another than Ed Vaizey considers her as a supporter. Yet this is no more a level of "support" than millions of other Tory voters. Is that the purpose of this category? It's going to be a big one!

This category (and the related cats) should be limited to those who have expressed some active support for a party: contributed to it financially, spoken for it on some platform, or at the very least made some public statement of support for it, beyond divulging their personal voting habits.

I'm not claiming that Emin shouldn't be here – but the sourcing for her so far is nothing like what we'd need to label her as such. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:18, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not "After Dark"

I just removed a reference to Tracey Emin appearing drunk on After Dark, as she never appeared on that television programme (see List of After Dark editions). Maybe another editor could find a reference to which programme it was. AnOpenMedium (talk) 12:56, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it was in fact a 1997 discussion programme about the Turner Prize.[5] Nick Cooper (talk) 13:24, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a link which actually gives the name of the programme (so could help an editor expand that section of the article): "Is Painting Dead" AnOpenMedium (talk) 17:48, 12 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And here is the programme itself. AnOpenMedium (talk) 11:26, 13 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Offices and Studios, Tenter Ground, Spitalfields, London

BBC Four - What Do Artists Do All Day?, Tracey Emin~~ Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 16:04, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Merger proposal

I propose that Why I Never Became a Dancer be merged into Tracey Emin#Films. It does not appear to meet notability on its own, and her other film work is adequately described in the section here. A few sentences about the film on this page makes more sense. JamesG5 (talk) 01:16, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Agree, with the caveat that all unsourced material from the article on the film is redacted in the transfer, so that this article does not in future have further shortages of sources. Of this artist's pieces, the infamous/famous The Bed, lacks an article, so this film and other stray pieces are likely to be of questionable relative notability. If another perspective exists on the film or a particular piece, "show me the…" published source. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:09, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why

"Why in the world does such a crappy artist have such a long wikipedia page?" (Move from top, unsigned) ~~ Xb2u7Zjzc32 (talk) 13:04, 8 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please do a strong edit of all unsourced content. She is clearly notable, and there is ample published content on her work. But this does not excuse the sloppiness of an BLP article with significant unsourced material. My perspective, and encouragement. Cheers. Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 05:12, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Edits of this date

Came to the article just to read, after seeing Sooke's attention in The Telegraph, as cited here at WP. Began simply copyediting, removing white space, moving one sentence quotes out of blockquotes, etc. For instance, as a formality, I also moved honorary doctorates from "Credentials" to "Honours", for that is what they are. In Credentials, and in Early Life and Education, I soon noticed a pattern of free form text—long blocks without a single source. This is unacceptable in general in articles, particularly unacceptable in BLP articles, and thoroughly unacceptable in descriptions of ones professional training and credentials. I therefore tagged the sections, and the article as in need of attention as to sources.

Hence, while the article's sourcing is at times thorough, at other times it is only sporadic—and so I have tagged it as in need of a sensitive, experienced editor with Arts credentials to review what sources do appear—e.g., there is a Biography journal from U Hawai'i Press that appears, but who knows what sentences of the large block of text in which its inline superscript appears that it actually covers. Hence, an expert is needed to look at such sources, and, per WP:VERIFY, separated fact from speculation or fiction (in the poorly sourced sections).

As well, the expert editor's experience should cover work aimed at restructuring the article, which is both overly sectioned, and at times overly detailed. Cheers, Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 06:42, 17 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Claim To Be Descended from Boswell Gypsy Clan

Duplication ?

Categories

The Last Thing I Said Is Don't Leave Me Here

Plagarism

Official site

Fair use rationale for Image:Emin-Strangeland.jpg

Literary Critic of English?

The Tattoo Show and her negative feelings toward Tattoos

"Personal Life" section

"panelist and speaker"

Introduction as an english artist

Criticism Section

Appointment of Professor of Drawing

This article needs updating

Severak statements about maximum prices need correcting -- but I don't know which are wrong

Facial paralysis?

Category:Conservative Party (UK) people

Not "After Dark"

Offices and Studios, Tenter Ground, Spitalfields, London

External links modified

Merger proposal

Why

Edits of this date

External links modified