Talk:Total synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids

Merge discussion

See Talk:Morphine#Merge_morphine_total_synthesis. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:55, 22 January 2014 (UTC) [[Template::Morphine total synthesis]][reply]

Change name to "Morphine Synthesis"

@Seppi333: @Boghog: @Bluerasberry: This was mentioned in the original rearrangement discussion. I think it would expand this article's scope to make it more sufficiently notable. Opinions?Exercisephys (talk) 16:43, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure. I see no problems with notability - you keep using that term but must be imagining criteria beyond WP:N because the chemical literature easily fulfills Wikipedia notability guidelines. Total synthesis is a technical term and there is precedent in Category:Total synthesis. I support expanding Wikipedia's scope but would not be quick to change article names, especially if it were for a range of articles. It would seem more natural to me to keep this article but also to make the Synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids, and then have both. There seems to be enough content here to merit that. I do not know what is most useful. Merges or forks may or may not be useful, and I do not feel strongly in any case, but I do not want content deleted when it can be placed somewhere. Blue Rasberry (talk) 03:42, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Biosynthesis and total synthesis are related but distinct subjects. Furthermore a number of independent review articles have been written on the subject of "morphine total synthesis" (see for example PMID 21547687 and PMID 21630507). Hence there is no question that the topic of "morphine total synthesis" alone is notable. The Gates synthesis is biomimetic, hence should be compared to the morphine biosynthesis, but a link to the later (as the current version of this article contains) should be sufficient. I am not sure what you are proposing @Bluerasberry:. Are you proposing that the synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids article contain both total and biosynthesis or just total synthesis? In my opinion, the biosynthesis and total syntheses should be kept separate since they are distinct subjects. In contrast, as the structures and synthetic routes to the various morphine family members are so closely related, in my opinion we should have one article on the total synthesis of the morphine family of alkaloids. The scope of this article would then closely match the scope of the available review articles. Boghog (talk) 05:17, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I did not make a proposal and would be satisfied leaving everything as is, but if someone wants to change things then I would comment. The only thing that I opposed was deleting any sourced content already in the articles. Right now the biosyntheses and total synthesis are together in the total synthesis article. If there is to be a new article created, then synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids seems like a good name to me. "Morphine synthesis" does not seem like a natural choice to me. In any case, keeping all the total synthesis articles named as they currently are seems aligned with Wikipedia guidelines, so if these articles are hosting information out of their scope and in addition to the information they already contain, I think that information could be forked from them but that the total synthesis articles themselves should not be moved. Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:57, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, biosynthesis ≠ biomimetic synthesis. Currently this article only contains total syntheses (including one biomimetic synthesis) and no biosyntheses. I am not proposing deleting anything, however the current article name does not reflected the scope of the current article. Hence I feel it should be renamed to total synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids or something similar. Boghog (talk) 13:26, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This article is notable. Seppi333 (Insert 2¢ | Maintained) 22:03, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I moved the article from Morphine total synthesis to Total synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids. This move was completely unrelated to the move proposed by Exercisephys, and the points raised by that user stand unaddressed. Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:19, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Beautiful Blue Ras, thanks. Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 04:11, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Diagram of the Rice Synthesis Is Inaccurate

The diagram of the synthesis by Rice is inaccurate. Most obviously, the second-to-last structure is not dihydrocodeinone (hydrocodone) and the last structure is not morphine. The last structure lacks a carbon-carbon double bond and it has a bridge point at the wrong carbon. I sadly do not have time to fix it myself. Fluoborate (talk) 23:47, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed Thanks for the pointing out the mistake. Boghog (talk) 06:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Future directions

The T Wilson perspective prepared from the Scott Denmark group provided in "External links", though somewhat dated, is relatively spot-on, and could guide the further development of this article (in terms of number of unique routes, and so which further syntheses might be added). Its presentation of the summary figure showing the disconnections made could also be broadened, relatively easily, to include the whole array of work to date—i.e., this is one figure ideal for an encyclopedia, showing points of disconnection, and only needing periodic updates to text to remain current (until the "next big [synthetic] thing", a novel disconnection, comes along). TW's sources are not always clear and are not secondary, and so further source-related work needs to be done—which would have as a side benefit, the move of the article away from being mostly primary source-based. The http://www.synarchive.com "External link" is also a decent guiding source; thanks to whosoever provided both of these. Bottom line, this article, as a continuing standalone, if influenced by the sort of rubric appearing in Wilson, with the breadth of coverage of synarchive (updated), could put this in a middle ground in terms of content sophistication, with much improved level of insight, and so serve as an example of the right way to do a natural product total synthesis page. Le Prof 71.239.82.39 (talk) 04:01, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Typical precursors

Are there typical precursors for total synthesis of morphine and related alkaloids and should they be described literally in article and not just in diagrams?--Custoo (talk) 20:50, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]