Talk:Tonglen

I learned the practice of Tonglen from Pema Chodron.

I'm stationed in Brooklyn, and I take the subway a lot. Sometimes there's a tension in the air, so I breathe in the tension, seeing it as a dark, cold, oily cloud, allow it to be transformed by my heart into a warm mist of healing light, then breathe out comfort, ease and joy.

It seems to work. Preceding comment added by unknown —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.192.36 (talk) 18:38, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

When you say that it "does seem to work", are you implying that you are actually effecting a transformation of the atmosphere in the subway for other people or merely for yourself? This meditation practice, like most forms of prayer seems very selfish to me in that it nurtures the illusion of giving. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.222.192.36 (talk) 18:37, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Original Research: A personal view on this practice

This section appears to be personal anecdotes on tonglen practice. I'm a Buddhist and think it can be beneficial to share the experiences of one's meditative practice, but Wikipedia is not the place for it. This section needs to be completely re-written with in an encyclopedic fashion with appropriate references, or removed. Woodega (talk) 04:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Backwards - Sending is the start

This article is backwards (it's a common error), proper Tonglen starts with sending on the exhale, as does generosity starts with giving. Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 19:39, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

ZuluPapa5, can you give a reference for this? Without a reliable reference it's just something (you think) you know, and not useable in Wikipedia (it's a common error).

In fact, the article quotes a reliable source, Pema Chödrön, for the order in-out (emphasis added):

"On the in-breath, you breathe in whatever particular area, group of people, country, or even one particular person... And then you send out – just relax out... send enough space so that peoples’ hearts and minds feel big enough to live with their discomfort ... So in the in-breath you breathe in with the wish to take away the suffering, and breathe out with the wish to send comfort and happiness ..."

This was added to the article 3½ years before you made your comment. Please make a habit of reading the article before you disagree with it on something so easily checked.

--Thnidu (talk) 15:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Sure read these, it's in Words of My Perfect Teacher, First Yale Edition. Page 223. Patrul Rinpoche circa 19th century from 25 times receiving the teaching from his lineage master[1]. It's just about a secondary source, having a lineage. This authoritative Tibetan source clearly starts with the exhale, sending. That is exchanging oneself and others, this is toglen. This source is a preliminary practice guide, for Ngöndro training.

Tonglen itself is usually translated as sending and receiving, which is in this order, Tong - len. This article even says "giving and taking", which the majority of the website do for tong-len's translation, note the syllable word order with giving or sending first as tong. Which is leading with giving and generosity, which happens to be the first paramita.

Pema C and others, have breath counter to Tong-len's word order. Can't find if she's practicing or received Ngöndro training in this regard, let alone even once. So, unable to verify her sources.

Then there is, The Union of Dzogchen and Bodhichitta By Anyen Rinpoche, P77. Which is a translation from authoritative Tibetian source, having "when we practice Tonglen, we are sending our roots of virtue and joy and taking, or receiving their suffering".

Love on Every Breath: Tonglen Meditation for Transforming Pain into Joy by Lama Palden Drolma, says "tong means "giving or sending," and len means "receiving or taking"" on p 4.

The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa: Volume 2: The Path Is the Goal, says "The practice of tonglen is a direct reversal of such a habit pattern and is based on the practice of putting others before self." p 109, and then there is word order of tonglen. p1

The Tantric Path of Indestructible Wakefulness By Chögyam Trungpa, also equates tonglen with exchanging self with other. p 701

The Joy of Living: Unlocking the Secret and Science of Happiness, By Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, Eric Swanson has the sending and taking definition, in the correct word order on p 259.

Bodhichitta: Practice for a Meaningful Life, has breath counter to the literal word order and cites, The wish-fulfilling golden sun, in Appendix 4.

Maybe a difference in schools. Likely confusion starts with the habit of grasping and taking first, but no sources found for that relationship to tonglen.

So, it's probably best to update the article now, the tonglen word order is indisputable. All those web sources can be put to the publisher test. Zulu Papa 5 * (talk) 00:51, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

References

Eight Verses

Tonglen#Practice says in the last paragraph

The Dalai Lama offers a translation of the Eight Verses in his book The Path To Tranquility: Daily Meditations.

There's no mention of "Eight Verses" elsewhere in the article, and no article so named. It probably refers to this, in Langri Tangpa:

He was the author of Eight Verses of Training the Mind (བློ་སྦྱོང་ཚིགས་བརྒྱད་མ། ; wylie: blo sbyong tshigs brgyad ma), considered a succinct summary of the Lojong (བློ་སྦྱོང་ ; wylie: blo sbyong) teachings of Mahayana Buddhism.

--Thnidu (talk) 14:11, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Fg

Rf. 59.89.40.253 (talk) 09:06, 24 May 2022 (UTC)