Talk:Tom Waits/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Genres and instruments in infobox

There have been changes recently to the genres and instruments in the infobox, which as they currently stand, are the result of consensus. If these are going to be changed, there should be discussion here first. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 18:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Record companies

The "record companies" section seems unnecessary. His move from one record company to another can be discussed in the relevant sections of his career. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 21:00, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Rock or Baroque Pop?

It seems clear that Waits' style is pretty heavily rooted in non-rock genres. Since this is true, why is he simply considered "rock, experimental"? Baroque, Chamber or Baroque Pop might be worthy additions to the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.147.232.105 (talk) 16:46, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

No, not without a really good source that says so. The claim, frankly, seems absurd. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 19:03, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

There are more elements of jazz and folk in his music than rock. Although of course there should really be a list of genres, because he's not just in one or a few categories. 193.91.181.142 (talk) 18:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC) (nick)

Genres

Rock and experimental music are listed in the topicbox, along with a warning: "Do not alter genres without discussion." Its clear however these genres are extremely limited. Waits early work was rooted in jazz and folk, a strong current of blues along with touches of country (Old Shoes [and Picture Postcards]). All of these genres belong in the topicbox. -Stevertigo (t | c) 23:38, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

The problem is, a lot of different editors have a lot of different ideas about what the genres should be, so they get changed frequently. The rough consensus is that rock and experimental are the broadest definitions of what Waits does. Yes, certain songs fit in other genres, but we cannot list every genre he's ever dabbled in or experimented with in the infobox, that is what the body of the article is for. But, no discussion of musical styles or genres should be included without very good sources. The opinions of editors is irrelevant. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 01:53, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

If we agree to use more descriptive terms, the terms wont get changed as much. Rock and experimental don't even cover it - don't even give a hint of his jazz/lounge piano origins. Its not just certain songs - for the first 10 years of his recording career he was a jazz/lounge piano man (with blues and folk as major influences). -Stevertigo (t | c) 18:32, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

All you are doing is expressing your opinion/interpretation. For the great majority of his career, his music has been rock, with a wide variety of other influences. The place for more detailed discussion of his influences is in the body of the article, not the infobox, and, as I said above, such discussion must be accompanied by sources. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 20:20, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

RJ wrote: "For the great majority of his career, his music has been rock, with a wide variety of other influences." - All this is is you expressing your opinion, and what's more its not actually true nor factual. What source says that he's been limited to rock and experimental? -Stevertigo (t | c) 20:27, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

As I said, sources are all that matter. I point you to this relevant discussion. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 20:32, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Your not answering my questions: You said, "For the great majority of his career, his music has been rock, with..." - I said that this isn't true, and I called it your opinion. What sources say that he's strictly a "rock" artist? Can you find any similar piano-players who are considered strictly "rock" artists?-Stevertigo (t | c) 06:19, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

One major source, used across Wikipedia, and accepted as valid, is AllMusic. They place Waits in the pop/rock category with the following "styles": Spoken Word, Singer/Songwriter, Beat Poetry, Experimental Rock, Alternative/Indie Rock, College Rock, Album Rock. I would disagree with some of those, but that is beside the point. Clearly, rock is where they place him. No mention of jazz or blues, etc. As I said, these other influences should be discussed, with references, in the body of the article. What sources do you have that call him a jazz musician? As far as other piano-playing musicians are concerned, which is actually irrelevant to this discussion, Elton John, Billy Joel, and Randy Newman are all considered rock musicians. ---RepublicanJacobite_TheFortyFive 14:26, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Albums summary

Most artists wiki pagees feature a summary bringing an overview of an artist's original albums, without any details about sales or charts. The general consensus is that live albums or compilations don't belong here. Some may find that redundant, but others find it easier to look at this summary without having to access the full, detailed discography. Why shouldn't that be useful here ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JPGR69 (talk • contribs) 09:27, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Whether other pages have it or not is irrelevant. My opinion is that it is unnecessary repetition. We have the discography link, nothing more is needed. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 13:31, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Agree with Jacobite + they are all listed at the bottom in the template. AND most good bios will mention the main albums in the text - so no need to link them 3 times in the same article. Moxy (talk) 16:34, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

"Keyboards" vs. Piano

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether or not Tom Waits plays "keyboards" or "piano." Although it's true that a piano contains a keyboard, when you use the term "keyboards" to denote a musical instrument, it implies an electric keyboard and not an acoustic piano. Since Tom Waits never plays a keyboard (either in concert or on record), it's misleading to write "keyboards" under the list of his main instruments. He plays the piano. That seems pretty cut and dry to me.Jpcohen (talk) 17:02, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Waits plays keyboards on The Black Rider. – Hattrem (talk) 22:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Best Known For?

Does anyone else believe that it is getting anachronistic at this point to claim that Tom Waits "songs are best known" through cover versions by "classic rock" artists? Unlike the Eagles and Rod Stewart and Bruce Springsteen, Tom Waits has continued to gain new listeners for his new work well into our century. He is not primarily associated with the 70s or 80s - something that can't be said about the other three recording artists cited. Vicperry (talk) 06:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I do think saying his work is "best known" by other artists undermines him a bit, it could be re-written to say that they were "notably covered by..." or "garnered commercial success by...". I became a fan a year ago and I'm only 18 so I do understand where you're coming from, and though I don't think his career has had as significant success in recent years as before, from a quick read of the article it does read like the material covering his "career successes" could be neutralized a bit, more coverage of his recent art could be added. Bonnietylersave (talk) 17:06, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Jpcohen (talk) 21:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Filmography

Why is the filmography included in the discography instead of the main article? I can see no convention on that. --Myxomatosis57 (talk) 13:09, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

It is standard practice, see the Bob Dylan discography. ---The Old Jacobite_{The '45} 15:17, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I've checked filmography sections of some other major artists. As far as I observe, only Johnny Cash and Bob Dylan articles include the filmography in the discography, while numerious other articles (David Bowie, Isaac Hayes, Sting, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, etc.) list filmographies in the main article if they're not notable enough to have their own articles. Personally, I can see no logic in including a filmography in a discography. I believe that a consensus should be reached on this topic. Thank you. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 17:30, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

The Tempest

Tom Waits' contribution to Teller's recent adaptation of Shakespeare's The Tempest should probably be mentioned. ref: http://www.playbill.com/news/article/tempest-featuring-magic-by-teller-and-music-by-tom-waits-and-kathleen-brenn — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.177.126.158 (talk) 20:49, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

adding an new link

For 1 month we re-published the Tom Waits Library, which is a big source of information about Tom Waits' lige and music. I tried to add the new URL but didn't succees. Is there anyone who can help or add it? The new URL is www/tomwaitslibrary.info

Kees Lau — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.210.161.246 (talk) 20:25, 8 November 2015 (UTC)