Talk:Tom Ketchum

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Decapitation

More information about how and why he was decapitated by hanging would be interesting, and probably make it a more informative article.

There's actually an extant picture of his decapitated body lying under the gallows with a bunch of law enforcement people kneeling around it like hunters with a kill. As to how and why, the rope/drop was obviously too long for him. But these things are hard to calculate. You can find out more in the wiki on hanging. S B H arris 02:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The San Francisco Chronicle (27 APR 1901, p. 3) ran an article "His head severed by the rope" (the link is in the article) where it says the rope was a "half inch rope" and he got a seven feet drop. Seven feet are not per se too much; according to British hanging practice that would be alright for a person of about 156-158 lbs. Nor was the rope really much too thin. British hanging ropes had a diameter of 3/4 inch (same as the 20th century "Delaware Hanging Protocol" by F. Leuchter specifies) which was reduced to 5/8 inch after being stretched. And that is just 1/8 inch thicker than Ketchum's rope. The crucial thing is we do not know anything about Ketchum's weight nor about the status of his neck muscles and vertebrae.--Kauko56 (talk) 23:32, 16 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ketchum on the Scaffold Before Hanging, April 26, 1901, Clayton, New Mexico

Sepia-tone photo from a contemporary postcard showing Tom Ketchum's decapitated body. Caption reads "Body of Black Jack after the hanging showing head snapped off."

Did you know his last request was to be buried face down so quot: "Harrington can kiss my ass." —Preceding unsigned comment added by LandonJaeger (talk • contribs) 21:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have read somewhere, but don't remember where, that a factor in the decapitation was the amputation of his one arm. The idea being that the body was thus unbalanced and therefor subject to forces not normally encountered in a hanging.Wschart (talk) 19:38, 4 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any justification for including this photo aside from morbid prurience? The article already includes a photo of the subject on the gallows, and a picture of a decapitated body is a hell of a thing to run into unexpectedly. I can understand the inclusion of postmortem photos in biographical articles like Mussolini's, where the image is iconic, but this seems beyond the pale. AC1 (talk) 23:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Trouser Color?

In the main photograph of the execution, Tom Ketchum has black trousers.

In the Sepia Tone photo they are a pale color.

Looking at the body in the sepia tone there seems to be rather too much 'neck' on the body.

Is it a fake photo perhaps?

My guess is not. Look at the second man holding the body, to photo-right. His left arm-sleeve and hand are very light-color because they are in a patch of sunlight, shining through the gallows. But his other arm-sleeve is dark, showing this is a lighting problem, not a fabric difference. The same printing contrast problem happens to Ketchum's pants, which are mostly in the same patch of sun, along with one gallows pole which also shows up light (so I would guess the dark patches higher on the pants are not blood, but simply shadow-- though you may see dark blood on the ground).

The stump of neck (tissue-look) I actually see is rather small in diameter, and of the right size. I think the rim amound it, is Ketchum's formal dark coat. I don't know what the white things coming out of the front of the neck are-- they may be neck strap muscles or they may simply be the white detachable collar or tie of the white shirt Ketchum was wearing (all formal shirt colars were detachable in those days, and Ketchum is clearly being hanged in formal attire, cravat and all). Not much is visible of the head, which is still in the hood-bag. There is a third photo of Ketchum in one of the links just before the drop, in which he's wearing the hood-bag. Gosh, this is morbid, isn't it? S B H arris 20:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

State?

This may be a quibble, but in 1901 New Mexico was not a state, rather a territory. So he was not ever a person hanged in the state for the crime of assault on a train. Wschart 05:45, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A valid point. Will fix in the text. S B H arris 22:12, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last words

According to the article, Ketchum's last words were "Good bye. Please dig my grave very deep. All right; hurry up." However, I've heard from other sources that they were "I'll be in Hell before you start breakfast, boys! Let her rip!"

If the latter utterance came before the one in the article, I think it is still worth mentioning; however, does anyone know which of those he truly said last? Did he even say the "I'll be in Hell" quote at all, or is it just an urban legend? --DearPrudence (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, I've read the same, and have references ^[1] ^[2]. I'll add it to the article and perhaps others can contribute with additional sources?

--Pontoppidan (talk) 10:58, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

Source 6 and 7 are just links to a search on Tumblr.

Seriously, WTF? It links to a tumblr search for "Black Jack Ketchum". --The Quiet Samurai (talk) 04:28, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Tom Ketchum/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

the article didnt say anything about him killing clint wingfield and mac rogers in 1899, in camp verde, arizona. i watched a presentation on the history channel, and they left out much more than this article. Mac was a relative of mine, and i have proof of the account.

Last edited at 18:31, 5 March 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 08:59, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Did Tom Ketchum have any sons or daughters?

Did Tom Ketchum have any siblings or have any sons or daughters? I’m wondering because I am a descendant of him and was wondering if I could find how I was related to him. 24.10.201.157 (talk) 17:38, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How are you related ? He is in my family tree as well ! Just went to his grave site this past year ! 2600:1700:E770:3E00:7912:9B59:8FC:39A7 (talk) 03:37, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How can you be a descendant if you're uncertain he has sons or daughters? Shoshin000 (talk) 13:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://www.cracked.com/article_16354_the-11-most-badass-last-words-ever-uttered_p2.html

[2] ttp://books.google.com/books?id=5KLrfdOrI78C&pg=PA176&lpg=PA176&dq=I'll+be+in+hell+before+you+start+breakfast!+Let+her+rip!&source=bl&ots=Js0NL5FA6E&sig=R_NtctEg_A059P0lLDbj5fdMuME&hl=en&ei=96M5TIK_Dc2RONij-YkK&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=I'll%20be%20in%20hell%20before%20you%20start%20breakfast!%20Let%20her%20rip!&f=false

[1]

[2]