Talk:Tomás Domínguez Romera

which birth year?

when writing this entry, I had a problem with a birth date: was it 1848 or 1853?

• Already in 1907, so when the protagonist was in his 50s, Enciclopedia universal ilustrada europeo-americana, a prestigious publication known usually as Enciclopedia ESPASA, published his brief biogram; his birth date was given as 1853. It is not clear what the source of this information was. It is known that many ESPASA entries related to Carlism were edited by a Carlist himself, Dalmacio Iglesias, though possibly somewhat later, in the 1910s and 1920s. Iglesias knew Domínguez Romera personally, as the two were members of the Carlist minority in the Cortes in 1910-1914, so he might have had the info first-hand. Anyway, it seems difficult to imagine that an encyclopaedic entry dedicated to a man who at the time was deputy to the Cortes, an entry which formed part of a prestigious publication, got the birth date wrong.

• During the next 50 years there was nothing published on his birth date, or at least I failed to find anything. His death notices or obituary pieces did not mention his age. And then in 1959 a Carlist historian Melchor Ferrer published volume XXVIII of his massive history of the movement; in line with the pattern he adopted, when a person was mentioned for the first time in the narrative, Ferrer used to publish a brief biographical info in the footnote. In this case, he stated the birth year as 1853. The source of this info is not clear. Ferrer did not know Domínguez Romera personally, though he most likely knew his son, Tomás Domínguez Arévalo. However, the latter died in 1952, when Ferrer was writing volumes X-XX of his work. When writing in the late 1950s Ferrer had probably no-one to ask from the Domínguez’ descendants. I strongly suspect that Ferrer has simply copied the 1853 date from ESPASA. Anyway, in his footnote Ferrer made 2 mistakes: he gave the death date as 1932 (it was 1931), and claimed that Domínguez was elected to the Cortes from Aoiz in 1905, 1907 and 1910 (he was elected also in 1914). Hence, the credibility of Ferrer in this particular case (and many others, by the way) is rather shaky.

• Since then some books whose authors bothered to mention Domínguez Romera gave his birth date as 1853, but never with a source. The same with various websites, be it of dubious credibility (like various genealogical sites, with contributions by mostly anonymous users, see e.g. Geni or Geneanet) or quite serious ones, like the Basque online encyclopedia. I guess in these cases the authors were simply copying one from another and none of them has got down to primary sources.

Anyway, given WP guildelines, as 1853 is frequently repeated, also in fairly reliable sources, the case seems settled.

• However, few sites (Hispagen, FamilySearch, Dateas) contain what appears to be the extract from Indice de Nacimientos de Carmona between the years of 1841 and 1871. I am not sure about the source, but I guess it comes from either a list of new-borns registered by the Carmona parish of Santa María, or from some secular register. Within the database there is a “Tomás Domínguez Romera”, with names of both parents given. So far the name of the father has been unknown, or at least I have never seen it anywhere. However, the name of the mother appears on many websites, and it is the 100% match with the database. The birth date is stated as January 28, 1848.

• Theoretically, a “Tomás Domínguez Romera” listed as born in 1848 might have been the older but already deceased brother of “Tomás Domínguez Romera” born in 1853. The infant mortality at the time, even among the well-off, was quite high. Also naming a newborn after his deceased brother was not unusual, e.g. Ignacio Romero Raizábal (born 1901) was named after his deceased brother Ignacio Romero Raizábal (1898-1899). However, the list of the deceased from the same Santa María parish, running until 1871, does not contain a “Tomás Domínguez Romera”. And this speculative brother must have died before 1853, as otherwise since 1853 there would have been 2 Tomases Dominguez Romera.

• Another thread is related to the graduation year. At the time young people were commencing law studies after bachillerato, so typically at 17 years of age, and graduating at 21 or 22 years of age. Given the year of Domínguez graduation is correct (1873) it matches neither the 1848 nor the 1853 birth date. If born in 1848, I would expect him to graduate some time in 1871-1872, if born in 1853, I would expect him to graduate in 1874-1875. However, I believe the graduation of 1873 points to the birth in 1848 rather than to 1853. A man born in 1853 was 20 when graduating in 1873, which seems a bit too early to me. A man born in 1848 was 25 when graduating in 1873. This might seem a bit late, but it is worth noting that these were the times of trouble, with revolution, fall of the monarchy, first republic and constant turmoil. As we know during his academic years Domínguez got involved in “battle of ideas”, it is not unreasonable to suspect he prioritized these “battles” over his academic curriculum, and that he completed his education with some delay.

• There is no other guidance I could extract from other biographical episodes. E.g. his last child was born in 1886, which makes both 1848 (38-year-old-father) and 1853 (33-year-old father) perfrectly possible.

Given all the above, I had to choose between 1848 and 1853 as birth date. Opting for the former might trigger the charges of relying on primary sources, opting for the latter seems counterfactual. I have decided in favor 1848, but have also provided extensive background in the footnote and have written this lengthy treaty here. The intention is to divert charges of "own work" and to make it crystal clear what the controversy is all about. --Dd1495 (talk) 10:31, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Interesante

Tengo cierto parentesco con Tomás Domínguez. En concreto descendiendo de un medio hermano de su madre. Su abuelo, Tomás Romera Trigueros lo tuvo fuera del matrimonio y posteriormente legitimó, tras enviudar y casar con su madre en segundas nupcias. Me parece muy interesante como se han tratado las fuentes en este artículo. Un tío suyo, José Romera Pomar participó en la Vicalvarada, y fue ascendido a capitán por los sucesos de aquellos días. Me gustaría si el autor pudiera compartir las fuentes sobre la familia Trigueros y el cómo conoce la información de que el abuelo paterno y la abuela materna de Tomás Domínguez eran primos. Llevo investigando como aficionado a esta familia un tiempo y no soy capaz de profundizar mucho en los Trigueros. Así mismo el cómo la abuela de Tomás Domínguez, Carmen Pomar, hija del marqués de Ariño y natural de Zaragoza acaba casado con un cacique de Carmona. ¿Salieron los Pomar de Zaragoza tras los sitios al que sometieron la ciudad los ejércitos napoleónicos? Cualquier información o bibliografía se agradece SpainMan (talk) 21:58, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

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Hello SpainMan,

thanks for your interesting note. I understand you have 2 questions, which I will address as follows:

• how do I know that Tomás Domínguez Romera’s paternal grandmother (Ana Trigueros) was cousin to his maternal grandfather (Tomás Romera Trigueros)? I do not know it. It seems clear to me that they were related, as they shared the same apellido and as Carmona at the time was not so big a place to host unrelated branches of the Trigueros. This is what I put in the main text, as something which appears unquestionable. Now, if they were related, what was the exact link? I have inspected various internet sources (hemerotecas, books, digitalised metrical records, genealogical sites) but I failed to find the info. Hence, in the footnote I put that “it appears” they were cousins. The word “cousins” does not necessarily stand for “children of the siblings” and it might denote more distant relation. However, it is also possible that the father of Ana Trigueros and the mother of Tomás Romera Trigueros (both born perhaps around 1750s) were indeed siblings, who shared the same parents (born perhaps in the 1720s). Given we are talking the same social class of grand landholders, who arranged marriages between themselves not in Madrid but in a small town (10,000? it was 14,430 in 1797), I think it likely.
• how come Carmen Pomar Pujadas, daughter to marqués de Ariño and herself the native of Aragón, married a cacique from Carmona, Tómas Romera Trigueros? Well, I wish I knew. When writing this article I tried to follow this thread and combed the internet looking for any links of the Romeros with Aragón or the Pomars with Andalusia, but failed to find any meaningful hint. It remains a mystery to me and I do not think that sitting thousands of kilometres away from Spain I can sort it out; since you are based in Linares, perhaps you will succeed, I sincerely hope you do. However, the Geni piece claims the descendance line is as follows: Tomás Domínguez Romera was son to Carmen Romera Pomar, who was daughter to Carmen Pomar Pujadas, who was daughter to Vicente Pomar Cavero, Marqués de Ariño, and I have referred Geni as a source in footnotes to this article.

Guess this does not help much, as I have hardly added any new information which is not either in the main text or in the footnotes of the article. Sure if you think any info needs correcting you are free to do it, though I would be grateful if first you discuss the issue on the talk page here. If you have any other additional info I would also be grateful for a shout; the key thing bothering me is how come Tomas Dominguez Romera approached Carlism, a rather unlikely choice for a terrateniente andalu.

regards, --Dd1495 (talk) 13:50, 12 April 2023 (UTC)

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