Talk:Todd Decker

"graduated from" vs "was graduated from"

An editor is wanting to change "Decker was graduated from Fresno Pacific College" to just "Decker graduated from Fresno Pacific College" and is insisting.

IMO either is correct, so the original should be retained on the grounds that we don't roil the text just to change the original writer's personal preference to your own personal preference, particularly if WP:BRD is invoked to retain the original.

On the merits, my understanding is that you don't graduate yourself, the school graduates you, giving you a diploma, hence, the verb takes a passive form. "He was elected... he was given... he was graduated" as opposed to active verbs: "He graduated... he ran... he ate...". See the difference?

Of course, the subject has do a lot a be graduated. But you have to do a lot to be elected to something, but election is still something that ultimately is bestowed on you (by the voters), so we have "He was elected to Congress" and not "He elected to Congress". Same deal here.

Here's a quote from somewhere:

USAGE NOTE: The verb graduate has denoted the action of conferring an academic degree or diploma since at least 1421. Accordingly, the action of receiving a degree should be expressed in the passive, as in She was graduated from Yale in 1998. This use is still current, if old-fashioned, and is acceptable to 78 percent of the [Bartleby] Usage Panel. In general usage, however, it has largely yielded to the much more recent active pattern (first attested in 1807): She graduated from Yale in 1998. Eighty-nine percent of the Panel accepts this use. It has the advantage of ascribing the accomplishment to the student, rather than to the institution, which is usually appropriate in discussions of individual students. When the institution's responsibility is emphasized, however, the older pattern may still be recommended. A sentence such as The university graduated more computer science majors in 1997 than in the entire previous decade stresses the university's accomplishment, say, of its computer science program. On the other hand, the sentence More computer science majors graduated in 1997 than in the entire previous decade implies that the class of 1997 was in some way a remarkable group. •The Usage Panel feels quite differently about the use of graduate to mean “to receive a degree from,” as in She graduated Yale in 1998. Seventy-seven percent object to this usage.

At any rate, it seems to be disputed, and either is right. On that grounds I've reverted to the original and the editor is invited to make her case here before changing it again. Herostratus (talk) 19:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

I disagree. Some late 19th century grammarians adopted the transitive 'was graduated' and had fun annoying people with it. Using it now just makes the text look old fashioned and perhaps written by a pompous windbag. The intransitive graduated is the better choice. "Is not hee the souerayne Doctoure, graduated not at Paris, but in Paradyse, whome our Heauenly Father hath ordeyned for our chief schoolemaster with expresse commaundement, to heare him?"

—Antonio de Corro, A Epistle or Godlie Admonition (trans. by Geffray Fenton), 1569

I understand that you personally disagree. I understand that you personally wouldn't have written it that way. I understand that you personally think that the intransitive is, objectively I guess, the "better choice". But you haven't explained why I should care about your personal preferences. Would you rather the article had not been written? Because edit warring and micromanagine over pettifoggery like this makes people not want to write articles. Go research and write an article and I assure you I won't change how you do it. Fair deal? Herostratus (talk) 23:35, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

For me as an non-native English speaker this was a significant problem in my fluent understanding of the article (and also something that just sound plain wrong!). Volodiscere (talk) 20:49, 16 April 2023 (UTC)