Talk:Tobey (song)

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Stereogum – for composition.

A fact from Tobey (song) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 16 August 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the 2024 song "Tobey" features "3 generations of Detroit"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Tobey (song).

Wikipedia

Release date

@Dxneo: 5 July is not two days after 2 July. I suggest that the Billboard article has made a mistake.--Laun chba ller 14:30, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Launchballer, yes it's possible that it's a mistake. However, aren't we supposed to follow the source? I mean, they wrote it on the sub-header and again in the body of the article, clearly stating the dates (July 2 and Jul5). Therefore, I don't really think it was a mistake. That's just my opinion, just in case this article go through GA review, that's gonna be a bit of a problem since the content in the article must match content in the source. dxneo (talk) 14:58, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not when it's clearly wrong per WP:WSAW and WP:CALC (it transcludes his Instagram post, which says 2 and 5).--Laun chba ller 15:05, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great. You may proceed and rectify my mistake

Thank you. dxneo (talk) 15:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Launchballer, can we get this to DYK or…? dxneo (talk) 08:41, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. I'll complete a QPQ.--Laun chba ller 09:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 23:53, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that in a trailer for "Tobey", Eminem "likely" carved into his own alter ego with a chainsaw? Source: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/eminem-tobey-big-sean-babyton-single-1235051653/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ceasefire proposal for Israel–Hamas war (May 5)
- Comment: I believe that the word "likely" - a quote from Rolling Stone - is enough to steer clear of WP:DYKFICTION.

Created by Launchballer (talk) and Dxneo (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 236 past nominations.

Laun chba ller 09:26, 5 July 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Article seems new enough, the article's pretty nice based on prose and sources. The hook is very nice in my own opinion, I actually verbally reacted! Pass. Arconning (talk) 13:42, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arconning: We have a slight problem, in that I just came across this BBC piece which confirms that it is definitely Shady Eminem takes a chainsaw to, which means "likely" won't fly. What is your opinion of the following:

ALT1: ... that the music video for "Tobey", in which Eminem carves into his own alter ego with a chainsaw, was delayed by three days?

ALT2: ... that the music video for "Tobey", featuring "3 generations of Detroit", features Eminem carving into his own alter ego with a chainsaw?--Laun chba ller 13:06, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Launchballer Since the "likely" isn't applicable now, wouldn't it be better to omit "likely" and I'd suggest ALT1a: ... that in the music video for "Tobey", Eminem carves into his own alter ego with a chainsaw?" Though ALT1 itself is fine for me, just need your confirmation if you're okay with sticking with ALT1. Arconning (talk) 13:20, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it might fall foul of WP:DYKFICTION on its own, hence the extra information. I'm sure a promoter can opine.--Laun chba ller 13:23, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pass for ALT1 Arconning (talk) 13:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Owing to concerns raised about the hook fact at WT:DYK (see WT:DYK#Tobey (song)), I have pulled the hook for further discussion. Concerns have been raised about the "Eminem using a chainsaw" angle failing WP:DYKFICTION and thus a completely different angle probably needs to be proposed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:21, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The pulled hook did not fail DYKFICTION as the delayed bit satisfied it (it did involve the real-world), and I think that if we're going to enforce a policy that 'the real world bit must be interesting in its own right', then the policy should spell it out. ALT2 remains on this page and I will have another hook when I've eaten.--Laun chba ller 11:45, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The three-day thing is unhelpful either way. From the perspective that the Slim Shady thing isn't considered fictional, the delay tidbit is just additional fluff that detracts from the substance. From the consensus perspective that the Slim Shady thing is considered fiction, then it doesn't make sense that one can add an unrelated real-world tidbit to a hook that is substantively about a fictional element in order to escape DYKFICTION. If we accept it in this case, it sets a precedent for future fig leaf hooks.

Look at these hypothetical examples: "Did you know that Jon Snow knows nothing in an episode that was shot in Finland?" What would shooting in Finland have to do with the character's lack of knowledge? "Did you know that Hermione learned a new spell in a book that came out in October?" Again, what's the relation? The substance of a hook ought to involve the real world in order to satisfy DYKFICTION, otherwise DYKFICTION is meaningless. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 12:29, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I still think that DYKFICTION should be updated to that effect (even if only to add the word 'substantially' before 'involve'!). I plan on taking another look anyway, but for now, what is your opinion of ALT2a: ... that "Tobey" features "three generations of Detroit"?--Laun chba ller 12:47, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure that really makes sense, but I don't want to be the rando who stuck my nose in and now isn't happy with anything, so I'll leave it to someone else to approve or not. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 12:52, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It at least doesn't fail DYKFICTION like the original angle, but I agree that it lacks context to make sense. It will probably at least need to say that it's an Eminem song. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:04, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2b: ... that the 2024 Eminem song "Tobey" features "three generations of Detroit"?

ALT2c: ... that the 2024 song "Tobey" features "three generations of Detroit"?--Laun chba ller 13:23, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arconning: As the original reviewer, can you review the hooks listed above? Thanks, Z1720 (talk) 04:11, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Pass for ALT2b. Article meets all requirements. Arconning (talk) 09:57, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Composition and cover art

Hello again Launchballer, composition is often named music and lyrics, I don't see how cover art and title fit in that category. Taking reference from Vultures 1, the two are distinguished. dxneo (talk) 10:05, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

… and The Marshall Mathers LP 2. dxneo (talk) 10:09, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess. I always interpreted composition as the work generally, which would encompass the cover. Certainly if the title's coming from a lyric, then it definitely counts as composition, and single-paragraph sections are discouraged by MOS:OVERSECTION. I'd be happy with Composition and cover art (or Cover art and composition really, as it's in that order).--Laun chba ller 10:22, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]