Talk:To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar

Critical response

From the article:

The song "Hey Now (Girls Just Want To Have Fun)" by Cyndi Lauper was included in the film and became an American hit.

OK that song topped the charts in 1983 - it was a hit more than a decade before this movie was made. Gotta love an encyclopedia written by 13 year olds - the world didn't exist before 1993, eh?

WOW WOW WOW, you mean you actually KNEW that the song was older?! what do you want, a f***ing medal? W guice 16:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

And let's not forget, "Hey Now (Girls Just Want To Fun)" is a reggae-flavored rewrite of the original "Girls Just Want To Have Fun", with a nod to "Come and Get Your Love", not simply a re-use of the original on the film soundtrack. Musically, it's a completely different animal, and became a hit in its own right. -- Pennyforth (talk) 15:54, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Parallels with How to Marry a Millionaire ?

It is funny that nobody notices that the characters in this movie are similar to those of How to Marry a Millionaire, with Swayze obviously playing Lauren Bacall, Leguizamo taking over Marylin Monroe and Snipes (arguably) Betty Grable. I am tempted with adding such a statement (which would then be immediately removed as original research... :-)) Adam Mirowski (talk) 10:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

I think we're watching different movies.76.123.137.119 (talk) 20:00, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

I would have thought comparisons to the earlier The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert were far more blatant than any movie about Millionaires. ~ Brother William (talk) 09:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I just noticed that about 36 minutes into the movie, Leguizamo says I'm the Latina Marilyn Monroe. Adam Mirowski (talk) 10:06, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

This movie doesn't have any "transgendered" characters

"The drag queens become stranded in the town for the weekend as they wait for the replacement spare part for their car to arrive. Whilst there, they are confronted by the town's small-mindedness, though it does not focus on their transgender identities but rather, their status as females, "

I prefer to copy-edit and can't really do a proper rewrite of this sentence, but it's fully inaccurate. The characters are not transgendered, and should not be referred to as such. They may be transvestites and are accurately described as drag queens. (And these are not the same thing either.) Transgendered persons are (or feel they are) born into the wrong gendered body, and they behave and dress as the gender they believe they are, not the opposite gender. Transvestites dress as the opposite gender, generally because it brings them sexual satisfaction. Drag queens perform dressed as the opposite gender. Can someone please rewrite this sentence to not say that these characters are transgendered? Thanks! Spookiewon (talk) 03:04, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I did my best to address your concerns; it is an awkward sentence and was difficult to tweak. While some may object to the term I replaced transgender with (Genderqueer), and it isn't my favorite term, I blush a little to use it, I think it is the most correct term to use in the situation. I also cleaned up some other issues with the sentence. I could have done more, except I haven't seen the movie in a while and can't remember to what extent the townspeople are actually aware they are men but choose to treat them as women. Mmyers1976 (talk) 16:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

From what I remember there was some implication that Patrick Swayze's character was (or was coming to realize that she was) a trans woman, and not simply a gay man in drag. In general I'd like to emphasize that this whole topic is extremely complex. There is a lot of crossover and ambiguity. The terminology was never cut-and-dry, especially back then. Many drag queens who identified/classified as men later came out as trans women, as still happens today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1010:B046:958:9552:425E:3ACE:6273 (talk) 07:17, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Just an FYI that transvestite is an outdated term that many now consider offensive. Squishyg (talk) 03:53, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

New COI editor and the recent edit warring

The editor who instigated the recent edit war has posted at WP:RSN#LISTING IN FILM CREDITS about the issue. I'm adding a citation directly to the film, as the credits verify the inclusion of this song. No-one seems to have been contesting that it appears in the film except whomever added the CN tag, so it seems this would not have been a problem had someone engaged with the new editor in a less haughty manner than warning templates. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:21, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Note that I have access to the film, and have independently verified the credits. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Agreed... and thanks Blueboar (talk) 19:10, 1 March 2018 (UTC) Blueboar (talk) 19:10, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

For the record, it's on Netflix and available in the US if anyone wants to check for themselves. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 20:12, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Changing distributors

Someone keeps making incorrect edits saying Sony/Columbia produced when Universal did. Please ensure this stops. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TPalkovitz (talk • contribs) 01:26, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 August 2020

First Plot graph, change "they initially refer to him simply as a "boy in a dress" rather than as a fully-fledged drag queen)." to "they initially refer to her simply as a "boy in a dress" rather than as a fully-fledged drag queen)."

Second graph, change "Dollard discovers Vida is not a woman, Vida strikes him, and he is knocked unconscious." to "Dollard discovers Vida is a transgender woman, Vida strikes him, and he is knocked unconscious."

Fifth graph, change "Meanwhile, Sheriff Dollard is ridiculed by his colleagues, who believe he was beaten up by a girl." to "Meanwhile, Sheriff Dollard is ridiculed by his colleagues, for having been beaten up by a girl." or "woman."

I believe it's an open question whether "transgender woman" or "drag queen" is a more appropriate term for the second change, but due to the context (these events describe the characters during a long term road trip during which they were either continuously performing drag, or they were comfortably (although fabulously) merely living as transgender women, although the term was not in popular use at the time. I believe the first and third changes, are, however, correct. 143.59.127.64 (talk) 03:26, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I think we would need to have a discussion on whether to refer to drag queens as the gender they are acting as or as their original gender. It should be noted that not all drag queens consider themselves transgender nor is the converse the same. Then again, this is an article just about something fictional. In the movie, how are the drag queens referred to as? P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 15:31, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I understand the concern, however, "transgender" was not a popular term at the time. The pejorative equivalent "transvestite" was just that. And, again, while the characters were certainly drag queens on stage, we experience them during a road trip, the equivalent of "just being themselves." I referenced that above. Drag queens who are not transgender, like RuPaul for example, would not do a road trip all glammed up. If they're glammed up not on stage, when no one but themselves are watching, I think that suggests these characters were transgender before transgenderism was an accepted term. My point is that whereas one "performs" drag, one "is" transgender. These characters dressed and acted as women without a performative element. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.59.127.64 (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Not done for now. Given the concerns raised, I think some consensus is needed before a change like this is implemented. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:30, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

iconic?

is the photo of Julie Newmar really iconic? or is it totemic? 84.71.45.82 (talk) 10:02, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Not really

It's mentioned that the Australian Film "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" was also a 'cross-country road trip' but that's not the case, they were literally going to the center of Australian. Alice Springs was the planned destination and they were not stranded there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.81.71.237 (talk) 21:55, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Better? Spectrallights (talk) 16:11, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:To Wong Foo, Thanks for Everything! Julie Newmar/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Spectrallights (talk · contribs) 07:31, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 18:54, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Creditable start for your first GA nomination. You have several kinds of issues: some copy changes, a threadbare Release section that needs beefing up, and some overlong quotes (and a citation needing additional support). Ping me when done or if you need help. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:13, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Did you know? If you fancy doing so, I always have plenty of GA nominees to review. Just look for the all-uppercase titles in the Television section. Reviews always appreciated.

Copy changes

Plot

• To do this, they cash in their plane tickets to a friend, John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, (which in reality is the title of a song), and use Remove the comma after "Schmidt". The appositive runs from "John" to "song".
• who hurls racial slurs, then forces Vida Remove comma
• Vida strikes him and he is knocked unconscious. He is presumed dead and the queens drive off. At a rest stop, they recover from the incident but their car breaks down. Commas needed after "him", "dead", and "incident". See WP:CINS.
• Vida becomes acutely aware of Carol Ann's abuse at the hands of Virgil, and one night decides to intervene and beats Virgil up before throwing him out of the house. Change comma placement because there is only one subject, Vida. Vida becomes acutely aware of Carol Ann's abuse at the hands of Virgil and, one night, decides to intervene, beating Virgil up before throwing him out of the house.

Production

• Writer Douglas Carter Beane originally envisioned the script as a stage play, but changed his mind Remove comma after "play" (CINS)
• Kohn passed the script along to his boss Steven Spielberg, who "loved it." For a quote of a sentence fragment (or anything less than a full sentence), remember MOS:LOGICAL: quote outside period. should be Kohn passed the script along to his boss Steven Spielberg, who "loved it". You have several of these.
• (whom the role of Chi-Chi Rodriguez was specifically written for) maybe (for whom the role of Chi-Chi Rodriguez was specifically written)
• The three lead actors spent time in the local drag scene while researching their roles, and were each given a drag mentor to work with in developing their characters Remove comma (CINS)
• described as "a tough shoot," Also needs the MOS:LOGICAL treatment.

Release

• This section is in need of expansion. Moving the box office numbers here (and retitling the next section to "Critical reception") will help a little bit, but did this debut anywhere before theatrical release? Was there anything about promotion? As it stands, this is the barest section and your weakest link.
• Too many section headers.

Reception

• Emanuel Levy of Variety gave a mixed review, but wrote, No need for the first comma
• Some quotes are too long. Consider partial rephrasing.

Legacy

• The fantasy element can also be seen as "[perpetuating] an idea that transgender identity is nothing but make-believe." Candis Cayne needs to be attributed here. This should be organized so that I don't think the director said it!

Other media: Musical

• Consolidate into one L2 header, "Musical".
• Beane stated that he had originally written To Wong Foo for the stage, and had retained stage rights when the screenplay was produced. Remove comma (CinS)

Sourcing and spot checks

• 5: Quote from Busch 1995 is accurately reproduced. Y
• 7: 2015 Yahoo Entertainment article: Kidron jumped at the opportunity to make a movie in America — particularly since she saw To Wong Foo as a uniquely American story. Y
• 14: The 1995 cult classic "To Wong Foo Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar" starred Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swayze in a tale of drag queens on a cross-country trip, and their beat-up Cadillac eventually landed on Upper Mountain Avenue. Partial confirm: is there a source connecting Montclair to the Bala Cynwyd scenes? Y
• 17: AGF on offline source. Going to
  • 18: AllMusic has 8/29/95 soundtrack release date. Y
• 23: Looks good. Did you know that Cite news has a parameter for |agency= for AP stories like this one? Y
• 40: Looks good. Consider paring down the quote and saying more in our own words; that's a long quote. Y

Earwig runs hot because of the length of the title. It kind of justifies my feeling that some of the quotes are too long.

Images

The film poster has an NFUR and even alt text. Great stuff. Would there be any appropriate images of the actors or the drag people who made cameo appearances?

@Sammi Brie: Greatly appreciate your review. I’ve since corrected punctuation errors and shortened some quotes.

For the sourcing of Montclair being used as a location for the Bala Cynwyd scenes, the article does not mention Bala Cynwyd, but says "their beat-up Cadillac eventually landed on Upper Mountain Avenue." Montclair and Upper Mountain Avenue (particularly Edgemont Memorial Park) is visible in the scenes where Vida is introducing Noxeema and Chi-Chi to Bala Cynwyd.

For images, I was thinking of possibly using images of the three lead actors as part of a multiple image template. I am also looking up info on promotion to beef up the Release section. Spectrallights (talk) 20:00, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Looking a lot better. I still need a source outright saying the claim on Bala Cynwyd, @Spectrallights. If you can't find it, you can just mention that a scene was filmed in Montclair. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:28, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Done. Spectrallights (talk) 23:51, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

Alright, one last thing you need to do, Spectrallights, is reduce your reliance on quotes in the Reception and Legacy sections. The quotes are still generally too long and too frequent. Try and keep a few and say the rest in wikivoice. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 16:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok, will be working on those. What are your thoughts on new updates from other editors? This one in particular duplicated a citation I already had. I didn’t elaborate on the original citation because Swayze and Leguizamo clashing on set isn’t exactly new information; the behind-the-scenes referenced articles already touched on that. Spectrallights (talk) 21:00, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry about the delay. The consolidated reference was easy enough to fix. I'd like to ask The Film Creator about some of the other changes as well. Is it normal to have home media releases after box office? That looks wrong. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:48, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie Um… I don’t think understand your question. Plus, I don’t know how to answer that. The Film Creator (talk) 02:29, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

@Sammi Brie Oh! I understand what you’re saying. Yes, home media release sections should be below box office sections. The Film Creator (talk) 02:35, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Reordered some sections to fix issues. Passing. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:01, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.