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Archive 1

Frequency, warning

First, a question:

What frequency do these TPMS's operate at?

Answer: Frequency of operation depends on the regulations of the communications authorities in each country, but is generally restricted to bands used for "low power short range" communication, i.e., 315 MHz and 433 MHz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.83.211 (talk • contribs)

Second, a warning:

I have been told by VisiTyre that RF type TPMS's can be interfered with by the automotive's components such as the axles, brakes and rotors, etc. Can anybody collaborate with this?

209.74.13.157 14:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

US DOT NHTSA acknowledges that up to 1 percent of replacement tires make battery powered Radio Frequency based tire pressure systems inoperative (or 2.25 million of the 225 million replacement tires sold annually in the United States). This is due to the ferrous and carbon black content in the tires which causes them to shield the RF energy, much like a Faraday Cage.
Reports are also being made that some RF based TPMS take more than 20 minutes to register tire under-inflation because the vehicle geometry and metal components block or attenuate the low power signal's "radio path" to the receiver electronics.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.83.211 (talk • contribs)

This entire section had been given over to inappropriate links, so I have removed it. Please review WP:EL for policy on links to external websites, thanks. — BillC talk 14:13, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

This page could do with a rewrite?

This Wiki page is in need of a rewrite. There are very few inline citations to reliable third party sources. The information on the page is also not presented in a user friendly manner. Most contributions seem to be from anonymous IP addresses which is okay, but not ideal etc. Where possible original data should be retained though again inline citations could be sourced etc I guess I am offering to do this? Regards CWB Cwbeal (talk) 21:15, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi yes this page is a real mess. For such an important subject on Wiki the quality of this article is low and is in need of a rewrite. The format of the page is also in need of a revamp. the inline citations are abused for external links rather than refernce points for additional information. Conservationinfo (talk) 16:35, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I started to do some minor copyediting, then got sucked into the abyss that is the rewriting need of this article. I did some work, but after trying to finish up small parts and getting dragged down again, I've just stopped where I am right now. Consequently, some parts of this article remain unclear, needlessly verbose, and/or poorly formatted, and I'm sure I failed to make at least some WP:MOS-recommended changes consistent across the article. I leave the remaining work in the hands of future editors. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:34, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
TLDR -68.231.150.226 (talk) 07:39, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge with "tire-pressure monitoring system"?

Merge this page with this one: tire-pressure monitoring system. They're the same title except for the hyphen. Banjodog (talk) 01:35, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree. The page tire-pressure monitoring system covers the same subject but in more depth Imark73 (talk) 08:02, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes this needs to be merged. Who goes about doing this? Jgodbey (talk) 19:20, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Article bias

Mentioning the advantages of TPMS without mentioning the disadvantages shows bias in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.174.59.205 (talk) 00:14, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Civics

The Clinton Administration signed the TREAD Act into law. The legislation was done by the 106th Congress. BenFranklinPearce (talk) 22:40, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Question Re:TMP experts

Who are the experts in the tire pressure monitoring industry? I'm doing some market research on the industry. Thanks in advance for the help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.230.117.206 (talk • contribs)

I've worked in TPM systems since 1998 and know quite a lot about them. What do you need to know? Cwbeal (talk) 10:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)cwbeal

Please describe the actual pressure sensor. How is pressure translated into an electrical signal? How does the sensor attach both to the internal pressure and the outside air pressure? GoodExplainer

What radio signalling system is used? Put the frequencies mentioned above into the article. Is there a named standard for the radio protocol? How does the receiver obtain good data from many transmissions from 4 tires? GoodExplainer

Please note, you replied to a comment tendered more than thirteen years ago. The author may or may not notice your replies. Also, please use four tildes when you sign, as it adds the date and time that you published your comment. Anastrophe (talk) 03:08, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Unanswered questions

This article basically states the obvious (Tire pressure sensor that sends radio signal to the car - duh!). Questions needing answers:

  • Are the sensors vehicle brand specific? Or are there standardized/universal specs?
  • Do the sensors have to be "paired" with the vehicle?
  • What are the radio frequencies used? What are the protocols?
  • Are there any handheld sensor monitors (for example to locate a bad/dead sensor).

Cloudswrest (talk) 19:01, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Recheck for errors and misinterpretations

The given article contains some errors. Please find and correct it. An example would be the statement, "increased tire wear" in the introductory part. 2409:4073:301:E7B2:240E:7ABD:A60A:78BE (talk) 10:45, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Benefits - Environmental

A figure for carbon monoxide saving is given. Is this meant to be carbon Dioxide? Whichever it is, it needs to be sourced, and preferrably expressed in SI units with an appropriate multipler rather than billions of pounds. Apostrostomper (talk) 08:17, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

absolute or gauge?

Do they measure absolute or gauge pressure? Absolute seems easier, but gives the wrong reading at different altitudes. Gauge requires a reference to outside air, which is tricky from inside the tire. Gah4 (talk) 18:19, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Indirect TPMS, potential creation of new article

(please see the discussion at the Direct TPMS talk page)

-Jim Grisham (talk) 14:34, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Security discussion

The security discussion seems far from being a hoax. Here is more information I found that at least partially corroborates the security argument:

These links verify much of the security data, including details as to how each individual tire is identified and registered.

This clearly allows for someone to specifically register our cars for identification even if the car companies aren't bothering to track serial numbers (and why would they since they are likely just pulled out of a bin and the car learns the numbers dynamically). All you would need to do is stand next to the car you wanted to identify and read the signals coming from the tires to get a "signature" for that car. The newer sensors with accelerometers can be set to only be on when the tires are rotating at a certain rate. This would make the process of "learning" a person's car more difficult, but not impossible.

So, while some of the particulars (the doom saying, specifically) may be wrong, the base information seems valid, so he may be incorrect about it happening, but the possibility is not a myth. Does the low likelihood of an event's occurring mean it should't be listed on the article? - S. Gartner talk 00:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The worst thing is the possibility for assassination use. The sensor emits radio signal, so the car's proximity to a road-side IED can be detected with high precision, allowing for most effectively timed explosion. Other "benefit" is the unique ID emitted by the TPMS sensor allows for singling out the victim's vehicle, so the IED can be left at the planned scene without any human supervison, as it will not go off at random passer-by car, just the pre-selected target vehicle.
Assassination by bombing cars on the road is quite common in Iraq. Italian investigative judge Falcone was blown up by the maffia using a half ton of TNT hidden under the autobahn, the godfather personally pressed the big red button. The top german banker was also killed in his armoured car in 1989, using a photosensor-triggered shaped charge device (obvious secret sevice kind of job). The use of simple and cheap "made in china" TMPS-sensing radio chips would make these kinds of assassination methods straighforward and available for the masses, not just the wealthy and resourceful and thus nobody would be safe on the road anymore.
Shall I mention pakistani military dictator Pervert Mustafa has already survived three massive IED bombings against his motorcade, including one where a bridge was blown up, solely because of two crates of high-tech jammer kit installed in his car by his US allies. 82.131.210.162 (talk) 09:00, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

The very low power output of the RF signal on direct TPMS sensors would require a following vehicle to be within a few feet of the target vehicle.

Removed tons of citation needed claims since all of them are covered by the reference at the end of the paragraph. User:Teutonic Tamer could have read that before spending so much time inserting faulty citation needed markers. If the referenced document itself is disputed, come here and let us know what is wrong about it, but claiming that something isn't a reference when in fact it is, is like saying the bible doesn't mention God. Trivial to disprove. --lynX (talk) 14:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

This Subaru website states that the sensors only transmit about once every minute. If the low power signal is detectable 50 feet away, it would take 105.6 sensors every mile to keep track of my car. It would be more efficient to observe the make, model, and plate number of the target vehicle and follow at a discreet distance. No tinfoil hats or black helicopters are needed. --Tarantulas (talk) 22:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

All sensors respond exactly within a specified time frame. Some of them respond within miliseconds of activation. The trick is to generate the proper Low Frequency (LF) datagram required to activate the sensor. A continuous wave Schrader style OEM part requires a large amount of LF in a continuous wave for several seconds, while the Ford Corporate or Chrysler Corporate sensors respond within miliseconds of activation. Anyone with an oscilloscope, can reverse engineer the activation tools on the market to determine what will wake up each sensor type. Detectible distance is relitive to background noise. Most TPM's transmit many frames of data making it easy to filter out background. Many TPM's can be activated, read and detected from hundreds of feet away. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.212.36.88 (talk) 13:16, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

From personal experience, I have yet to receive a decent read from a TPMS sensor outside of a 12' range on a stationary vehicle. The sensors themselves transmit a unique ID, but unless you are close enough to the vehicle to read the VIN the sensor data alone doesn't account for much...Sarge62436 (talk) 03:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I suppose so, but it seems to me that license plate readers are getting more common. I was recently at a parking garage that remembers license plates so that you don't have to insert your ticket in the reader. I suspect it is common in other places. Gah4 (talk) 18:16, 30 April 2022 (UTC)
A colleague playing with an SDR wondered what would be visible by plugging into the rooftop yagi, and got TPMS from the road below.
So either TPMS sensors have significantly increased in power since then... or the poster above didn't consider the possibility of using a high-gain antenna. 178.51.26.172 (talk) 12:00, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
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