Talk:Three Billy Goats Gruff

Untitled

Okay, why does it say the Spaniard Janet? Since when was this troll Spanish?

Moral

The moral can include don't be greedy or trust everyone. Another moral can be use people's weaknesses to your strength. The first two goats do this by telling the troll to wait for the biggest goat because his weakness is he is greedy and trusts that the big goat can be eaten, this is another weakness trusting people too easily. It can also be said that extreme results (getting across the bridge) require extreme action(fighting the troll). Note: This is a good versus evil story. I hope this helps :)

The moral section appears to be completely uncited -- and particularly inapt. The first two goats don't have to overcome anything to get across, just use their wits to ensure that the troll faces the one who can defeat him. Nor does the fairy tale include anything about the grass on the other side being greener.

And the "allegory of capitalism" needs to have some citation if it's not to be a flight of fancy. Goldfritha 03:35, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't find any moral to this story on the web. We should probably leave them for a little while and then delete them if no other sources can be found. I thought they wanted to go the other side because the grass was greener, so I added that sentence a while ago. If they went to the other side for some other reason, it can be removed. - Peregrinefisher 05:20, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

No particular motive for wanting to eat on the other side is given. Any such motive is speculation and inappropriate for discussion of the story's moral. Goldfritha 02:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyone who has cites can bring it back. Goldfritha 15:02, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed "Additionally, one moral you could take from this story is the saying 'the grass is always greener on the other side', meaning you will never be happy with what you have." from the morals part of the overview section as there was nothing or no one to back it up, and I have never come across anything similar to this moral in the versions I have read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kissekatt (talk • contribs) 19:10, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that people attributing the grass is greener moral to the story should be noted as it is very common. something like, grass is greener moral is sometime attributed to this story, however the original story does not have this moral in it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.107.214.210 (talk) 22:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the conclusions about the moral are unfounded and certainly not what I would consider being the moral of the story. In my opinion the moral is more along the lines of "don't keep waiting for something better to come along" - or perhaps that's just me taking the troll's side. :-) Supermagle 19:44, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

No one seems to know what the moral is for this tale, at least for sure, we can assume there is one since all his tales had a moral message? It should be noted I think that the original message, whatever it was, is now unknown.

I could offer opinions that brains triumph over brawn, or that with wit and cunning it's easier to defeat enemies, or maybe as noted above don't keep waiting for something better to come along, although this really doesn't seem to be conveyed by the meaning at all in context. Why are these Goats using their wiles to bypass the troll, surely if they are not waiting for something better to come along, they could have just eaten the grass on the less green side, but this thread in general seems incomplete. It's also not well formatted either but meh.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.15.85.252 (talk) 15:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC) 

The "Don't wait for something better to come along" moral lesson isn't referring to the goats...It's referring the the troll. He should have eaten the first goats and had his meal, but was always hoping for something better to come along, and ended up with nothing, that's the only moral lesson to take away from it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.28.18 (talk) 23:01, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Always felt a sense of great betrayal when I read this tale. Each goat betrays his own brothers/family. "Eat them instead of me." The opposite of self-sacrifice, it is immorality. I myself am thinking hard what Moral if any is to be found in this tale, because I have a fascination with it.

I think most people look at this story incorrectly, glad to see there have been commenters who looked at this from the right angle. The moral is not learned from the perspective of the Goats, the moral is learned from the perspective of the wolf. The wolf gives up eating the first two goats because he wants a bigger meal later on. If the wolf had accepted the first and second goats, he would be well-fed and satisfied. The wolf's desire to have the biggest and best meal means that he holds out until his prey is too big to handle, and he misses out. I think the Polish version of the story explains this well --> https://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0122e.html#lausitz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.49.136.162 (talk) 23:02, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism

The bignosed troll who is forcing people to pay for something they should be getting/doing for free(in this case crossing a bridge) represents Jewish people. The goat was often used as a symbol of the Aryan race, and this story comes Northern Europe. In the end the noble white bearded goat knocks the troll off the bridge and frees the land(Europa). I remember seeing an old wartime cartoon with Hitler as a goat knocking the Jewish bankers/trolls off the bridge. Note: I am not a Nazi, but this meaning is obvious to anyone who doesn't want to close thier eyes to fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.158.190.184 (talk) 13:45, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Just because the Nazis used the story in a propaganda campaign doesn't mean that's what the story is about. A "nose as long as a poker" doesn't sound much like a Jewish nose anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.242.165.14 (talk) 02:19, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Other Media

If I remember correctly, there was an old Animaniacs episode based on the story of the Billy Goats Gruff. Please, if anyone can confirm this, it would be appreciated.

I don't have my copy available, but I think the story was also alluded to by Terry Pratchet in Monstrous Regiment. There's a mention of a bridge where a troll charges one penny to cross, or one hundred dollars if you have a billy goat, followed by the comment that trolls may not be smart, but they do have long memories. If anybody's got a copy and can look it up, it would be worth mentioning.JDZeff (talk) 03:22, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Homer Simpson says in one episode (don't remember which): "Oh no, we will have to live under a bridge like common trolls!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.143.63 (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

In one episode of Cheers (don't remember that one either) a guest says to Carla Tortelli: "Are you not supposed to live under a bridge?" (Implying that she looks like - and act - as a troll.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.143.63 (talk) 11:43, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

The Thomas the tank engine and friends episode, three steam engines gruff parodies the three billy goats gruff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.232.129 (talk) 06:12, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Introduction / translations?

Who introduced this into popular culture in England? Everyone knows it so it must have been published in popular books of fairy tales, but when and by who started it by translating it? Was it introduced to the English speaking masses even before the time of the printing press? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.242.165.14 (talk) 02:13, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Done some research. According to A Study of Fairy Tales, it was Popular Tales From The Norse by George Webbe Dasent, published in 1888, translated from Norske Folkeeventyr

Plot Plot

Is is it it necessary necessary to to tell tell the the story story twice twice? Shreevatsa (talk) 04:31, 3 June 2010 (UTC) Shreevatsa (talk) 04:31, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

No - I don't understand why the second version was added in this edit. I've now combined the two versions into one. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:26, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

The picture

What - if anything - is the relationship between the story and its use as a Christmas decoration in the White House? Did it have some special significance? Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:11, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is a bit strange: The story happens in summer (!) time - and it is never used as a Christmas decoration in Norway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.34.143.63 (talk) 11:48, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Time/Date

Okay we have plenty about the story & that but when was this from? How old is the story? At least a vague section or line on this should be necessary. UFOash (talk) 15:52, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I've added a reference from here stating that the story was first published (in Norwegian) in 1841-44 - of course the story itself could be much older. Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:45, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Different composition

The Icelandic version has a kid (baby goat), a mother goat and last the father goat, not a kid, father and grandfather. Should this be incorporated, it does contradict the pseudo-christian element that the article introduces into this tail of wit and strength. --Stalfur (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Gruff

So, what's a gruff then? --BjKa (talk) 20:17, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Nobody? --BjKa (talk) 12:20, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Just a word that means; abrupt or taciturn in manner.

synonyms: abrupt, brusque, curt, short, blunt, bluff, no-nonsense; More (of a voice) rough and low in pitch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.168.121.2 (talk) 15:13, 28 September 2016 (UTC)

None of which make sense here. So, does anyone have suggestions for what gruff means in the title of this story? Great floors (talk) 18:31, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

"The story’s original Norwegian title in full (a bit less snappy than the English one we know) was De tre Bukkene Bruse, som skulde gaa til Sæters og gjøre seg fede which roughly translates as ‘The three Billy-Goats Gruff who were going to mountain pastures to fatten themselves up’. ‘Bruse’, which is the name of the goats, was translated as ‘Gruff’ in the first English version, and this translation has stuck ever since but in fact the word refers to the hairy tuft on a goat’s forehead...". Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:54, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Aha, thanks Ghmyrtle, so "Gruff" is their family name? Like if the story was about sheep and the characters were Big Woolly, Medium Woolly, and Little Woolly? I'll note this in the article. More information welcome, of course. Great floors (talk) 08:31, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

The original family name was Bruse, but the translator used "Gruff" - apparently misinterpreting the meaning of the original. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:09, 13 April 2018 (UTC)