Talk:The Virgin in Prayer

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BorgQueen (talk) 21:26, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

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The Virgin in Prayer by Giovanni Battista Salvi da Sassoferrato

• ... that the blue garment in The Virgin in Prayer (pictured) is colorised by an ultramarine made from lapis lazuli, which was a highly cost pigment to be painted in such this art? Source: "The bright lighting combined with the impenetrable dark background makes the blue of the her robes especially brilliant. Sassferrato has used ultramarine for these. Made from lapis lazuli, a semi-precious stone mined in north-eastern Afghanistan, ultramarine was the most expensive of blue pigments, and highly prized for its intense colour." National Gallery
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Axial parallelism

Created by JeBonSer (talk). Self-nominated at 01:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC).

• @JeBonSer: It's new and long enough, each paragraph has a citation, but watch your wording, there's a 26% similarity on EarWig for use of the same phrases like coloured robes and sculpted facial features, Reformers of the Roman Catholic Church advocated a more personal approach to worship, made from lapis lazuli, a semi-precious stone mined.
• The article could also use some light copy-editing and toning down of the the descriptions in Wikipedia's voice; the description is very flowery at times. her flawless porcelain-like skin lends a sculptural quality to the painting and makes the audience feel to be in her real presence; radiant, luminous, more brilliant, brilliantly elegant etc.
• My main concern is that isn't this true for most medieval and renaissance paintings of the Virgin Mary? I'm not sure it's particularly "hooky" to say that this painting of Mary uses Marian blue like so many others?
• I think also I'd like to see a few more reliable, independent sources (i.e., not just on museum websites) to confirm that this painting is WP:NOTABLE. Is newliturgicalmovement.org a reliable source about art history? I see that an article in The Burlington Magazine talks about the painting: (JSTOR 882464), perhaps this can be incorporated into the article.
• The hook is properly formatted (although I might reword it if this is the final angle we end up on; the syntax is a bit off to me, e.g., which was a highly cost pigment to be painted in such this art, and this use of colorised also doesn't seem like the most obvious verb)., 164 characters, and there are no issues with the image.
• Can you try to come up with any alternative hooks? Umimmak (talk) 23:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that in the 17th-century, The Virgin in Prayer (pictured) by Sassoferrato was one of the most common subject in religious painting in Christian Europe? Source: "Sixteenth-century reformers of the Roman Catholic Church advocated a more personal approach to worship, placing great emphasis on individual contemplation. By the seventeenth century, the subject of the Virgin alone and at prayer had become very common." National Gallery. JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 05:30, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

• @JeBonSer: Again, the issue I’m having is that this isn’t particularly unique to this painting. It’s not particularly surprising to read that the Virgin Mary was a common subject Italian art in the Baroque era given the strong relation of Roman Catholicism to all three of these topics, and that hook says nothing particularly exciting about this painting. Do you have responses to the other issues I raised? Umimmak (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

@JeBonSer: Hi there, sorry to interrupt; how about that ultramarine is made of a stone from Afghanistan? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paradise Chronicle (talk • contribs) 03:52, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

@JeBonSer and Paradise Chronicle: as Umimmak points out, ultramarine was a pretty common colour for paintings of the time. If a hook can't be agreed upon in a week, I'd say that this nom should probably be marked for closure. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 10:18, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Sorry for the inconvenience as I have my wikibreak for these past days. I have my other suggested hook which you can agree:
* ALT2: ... that The Virgin in Prayer (pictured) was acquired by the National Gallery in the mid-19th-century as the London art world had a renewed interest of its artist? Source: "This picture and The Virgin in Prayer were both acquired by the National Gallery in the mid-nineteenth century, when Sassoferrato’s star was high in the London art world." National Gallery. JeBonSer ^{(talk | sign)} 04:51, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

• New reviewer needed to check the new hook, but also the issues raised by the original reviewer. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:25, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
  • no re-check needed, since no attempt has been made to fix the issues. Without movement, nomination is ready to be closed. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 21:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)