Talk:The Specials/Archive 1

Archive 1

Ska or punk?

Werent The Specials a Ska band rather than a punk band? G-Man 11:52 UTC 12/4/03

I'd say they were both- hence I've altered the sentence to describe them as '2 Tone' quercus robur

Using '2-Tone' as a description of style grates on me: 2-Tone was their record label. It wasn't a style until the Specials defined it, so it's meaningless: you have to know what the Specials sound like to know what 2-Tone sounds like. You might as well say that the Specials sound like The Specials. Their style is ska and reggae with punk influence, IMHO. Pollythewasp (talk) 11:16, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Phrase: "regarded by many"

Authenticity check: A search reveals that the phrase "regarded by many" appears in the text. Is the phrase a symptom of a dubious statement? Could a source be quoted instead? Perhaps the "many" could be identified? Might text be edited to more genuinely reflect specific facts?

Wetman

Damn, so now we have bots telling us about POV issues? That's harsh. Anyway, fixed now. ☢ Ҡieff⌇↯ 01:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, an interesting development... harsh but regarded by many as probably fair ;-) Graham 10:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Jerry Dammers

Jerry Dammers would be born as '...'. Ok, why not ? But why the article about him doesn't mentin that ? So, which is correct ? Plus something else : are you sure that 'né ...' is correct in english ? It's a french phrasee.-unsigned

Jerry Dammers was definatly not born 'Gerald Dankin', 'Dankey' or 'Danki.' I am his nephew, my surname is Dammers and no one in my family has ever had any of those surnames. The fact that different versions of his alleged 'birthname' emerge shows how innaccurate they all are. I borrowed the book: 'Wheels Out of Gear: 2 Tone, The Specials and a world in flame' by Dave Thompson, off a friend. I was amused to find that this popular myth was actually in the first sentence of the book! The first page of this book also got his age wrong and said that 'too much too young' is totally unrelated to the track 'birth control.' If the author actually listened to both tracks he would notice that they use a similar organ riff, but anyway thats a bit off the point.

I changed this on wikipedia a few months ago, but it was changed back. Please don't change it back again because it's 100% untrue.

OK (ish). But are we agreed that his date of birth is 22 May, 1954, not 1955 ?! Also, there is much evidence to support the Gerald Dankin name. Is his real first name actually 'Gerald' then ? I do not wish to cause offence, but the counter claims are well documented. Where does "Dankin" etc., come from ? It seems odd to pretend that someone born Dammers is really Dankin, or is this to "hide" some ridiculously perceived, one-time ethic embarrassment, perhaps. I do not know (or in many ways care) but it might be interesting to try to get to the bottom of this. With all due respect, he is not "in the public eye" these days, and there seems little to be gained from continuing "subterfuge".

Derek R Bullamore 23:59, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

He was born in 1955, I just asked my dad and I went to his 50th birthday party last year so that makes sense. I'm not sure how exactly the 'gerald dankin' story emerged and perpetuated and I agree its not really a big issue that anyone should get too hung up about. I think that the fact that there is no one in his family (including me - meaning that my dad(his brother) would also of had to have changed there surname for no apparent reason) with that surname, is a credible argument against the 'Gerald Dankin' myth. I think real evidence to counter what I'm saying would be to find another member of my family with the 'Dankin' surname. I find it laughable to suggest that I am engaging in 'subterfuge,' as I have no real motive for doing so, I am just correcting a factual inaccuracy. You're right that as Jerry is out of the public eye nowdays, there would be no point in engaging in a meaningless argument. His first name was 'Jeremy' not 'Gerald,' which hardly constitutes a name change. I hope that you believe me now, if not you could start developing some more conspiracy theories about me being a concert promoter etc.

Thank you for the additional information. I did not, in any way, intend to suggest that it was you specifically that was engaging in 'subterfuge'; merely that the whole situation seemed odd. It is much clearer now. By the way, you are not a concert promoter are you (tee hee) ?!

Derek R Bullamore 19:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Horace Panter

What was his real name? It states in the article Sir Horace Gentleman, but that redirects to an article called Horace Panter. If Horace Panter is his real name then that should be used and the Gentleman bit should only be the AKA. Also is he a real Sir? If not that should only be in the AKA also Timb0h 17:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Umm. This chap is difficult to pin down. It seems fairly certain he was born 30 August 1953, and that he is definetly not a Knight of the realm. The "Sir Horace Gentleman" title was seemingly just a bit of fun. But I can not unearth any hard evidence that 'Horace Panter' was his real name either. The comments above are worth persuing.

Derek R Bullamore 18:34, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I came to the talk page to make the same point, that Horace Panter and Roddy Byers should probably be listed under their real name, and, as no-one has disputed the point, I'll make the change. It is deffo Horace Panter, btw, he's written a book. Pollythewasp (talk) 10:49, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Reference Check

I heard that The Mighty Mighty Bosstones refer to some lyrics from The Specials...possibly from Night Club if I remember correctly. Does anybody know if this is true? If so, which song? Maybe we can put it in the trivia. (Little Tinyfish - 12-22-2006)

Musical Origins

There are no mentions that most of The Specials did covers of first wave ska songs. It seems like a notable point. Perhaps the song origins could be defined? (Little Tinyfish - 12-22-2006)

Commercial Success

I remember the song, Monkey Man being in a comercial in the late 90s. Something tells me it was for either Capital One or Sierra Mist. I'll look into it. Maybe somebody else can verify? (Little Tinyfish - 12-22-2006)

Also, "A Message To You Rudy" is on MLB 2K7, I'm just too lazy to find a citation. If someone else wants to do it, you can have the credit.

Fair use rationale for Image:Specials-logo.png

Image:Specials-logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Thespecials.jpg

Image:Thespecials.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:16, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Aren't the Specials a 2 Tone band?

I'm a little confused, I keep on trying to add the Specials to the list of English Punk Rock bands and remove the ska genre classification. This is because they are a 2 Tone band, and we all know that 2 Tone is combination of ska and punk. Therefore, it's redundant to put ska (or punk for that matter) in the genres because 2 Tone is already in there. There is also no reason why the Specials shouldn't be in the category for English punk rock groups. They might not sound like Bad Religion or other modern punk bands, but that doesn't mean that they aren't a punk band. They started out when punk was fairly young and as a result sound more similar to early punk bands like the Clash. Music genres change with the time guys; when you compare first wave ska to second wave ska there is just as significant a differance as there is between old punk and new punk. Heck, Terry Hall doesn't even consider them to be a ska band but instead exclusively a punk band. You can see him say that in this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IgzZTM-cXg I think Terry is being a little off here, since there is a strong element of ska in their music, but the point still stands. I'm going to readd them to the punk bands category and remove ska from the genres and I don't expect to see this changed unless someone gives a good reason for it first. Ash Loomis (talk) 21:07, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

• I re-added ska to the infobox because ska is a big part of the music they play — certainly a much bigger part than in the music of many of the bands that have ska in their Wikipedia infoboxes. The Specials official website even says "Welcome to the homepage of legendary ska band The Specials". Do you have any references showing that they are considered a punk rock band? Spylab (talk) 03:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

• • Their official website is one reference. It states that they're a punk band as well as a ska band in many spots, the most obvious being the front page; It reads "It was the end of the punk era, and time for a change. Enter stage left The Specials, with their infectious mixture of ska, reggae and punk rock." If you like I can find some other websites which state this, but I don't think it's necessary since their official site seems like the best source to me. Since the Specials are best known as a ska band I don't really have an issue with ska being included in the genres (although it is unnecessary as 2 Tone is already in there.) I noticed you didn't remove them from the "English punk rock groups" category, and that's good enough for me. Ash Loomis (talk) 04:20, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Ash, The Specials are not considered a punk band by the overwhelming majority of British music fans. Music genre categorisation is notoriously difficult and is best avoided unless you have a detailed working knowledge of the period and musicians. The Specials' music is not similar to the fast, loud, thrashy guitars that characterise the late 1970s British punk bands such as the Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Damned and Buzzcocks. As your own quote above says, "It was the end of the punk era" and the Specials emerged from that punk era just like many other bands such as The Jam, The Police and Blondie, none of whom are considered punk rock. Terry Hall is a brilliant musician and is renowned amongst his fans for his mischievious interviews, they are not suitably objective for an encyclopedia. Also bear in mind most musicians don't like being categorised and tend to react against public perceptions of genre.

I will remove the punk groups category and I will also remove the Video game musicians category as there is no evidence for this.

All the best, DarylKayes (talk) 18:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

• • The quote does indeed say that it was the end of the punk era, but it then goes on to say that the Specials combined ska with punk rock. This means that the Specials played a fusion of ska and punk in order to introduce something unique to the punk scene. It does not mean that punk had disappeared, but that the punk movement was losing it's momentum. Every genre has it's popular and unpopular periods, it doesn't mean that they disappear between their high points. If you look at the history section of their official site it talks about how they played at many punk rock venues and even opened for bands like the Clash. Their music has also appeared on punk rock compilations such as the SLC Punk soundtrack. It's unlikely that a band that only played ska would be playing in the punk scene since the styles are radically different by themselves. While the Specials weren't quite as aggressive as the Sex Pistols, they did bring punk's loud and fast guitars to ska. Otherwise they'd probably sound more like Prince Buster or the Skatalites which are far more slow paced by comparison. The Specials also wrote rebellious lyrics which criticized the current political and social situation in Britain. This strong anti-establishment stance is arguably the most important element of punk rock. Could you please provide a source for your claim that "the overwhelming majority of British music fans" don't consider the Specials to be a punk band? I usually find at least one reference to the Specials having strong punk elements in their music from every source that discusses them, British or otherwise. One that comes to mind is "The Pop Years" documentary; here's a clip from it that's available on YouTube which addresses this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZCdWNuA_Sg For the record, if you look at the articles on the Jam and Blondie, they are also considered to be punk bands. The Police are listed as Post-Punk, which is essentially a more musically complex version of punk. Lastly, I agree with removing the Video Game musicians category, since they never composed music exclusively for a game. "Little Bitch" appears in Guitar Hero, but that's hardly the same thing. Ash Loomis (talk) 04:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Using '2-Tone' as a description of style grates on me: 2-Tone was their record label. It wasn't a style until the Specials defined it, so it's meaningless: you have to know what the Specials sound like to know what 2-Tone sounds like. You might as well say that the Specials sound like The Specials. Their style is ska and reggae with punk influence, IMHO. And there's no reason to exclude them fromthe punk category: many first wave punk bands played reggae, the styles were complimentary. And they supported the Clash without getting bottled. Pollythewasp (talk) 11:19, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Seperate Discography

I have just added a Specials separate Discography, as it looks very cluttered on the wiki. Please help me improve it.

Amy Winehouse

I don't think the Amy Winehouse section is particularly encyclopedic. She is one of hundreds of bands that the Specials have influenced. Anyone else think it should be removed?

Navicular (talk) 00:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed.Cloonmore (talk) 02:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, and now removed.

Derek R Bullamore (talk) 20:39, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

New chaps on horns

Should the 2009 line-up not mention the horn section that's been playing with them in some way? (Though I admit that I'm not sure of their names myself.) 217.43.0.61 (talk) 22:45, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Silverton Hutchinson

I've been approached by someone who says that they are a fan of The Specials and they mentioned that the original drummer for them was Silverton Hutchinson. I've done a bit of research and it does appear that he was the drummer for The Specials until just before their first single. He even was drummer whilst they were called The Specials rather than Coventry Automatic. Any thoughts before I make some changes to the page? Cls14 (talk) 18:13, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Any reliable sources for the information? Keith D (talk) 20:51, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Found several including an extract from a history of Ska book. [1]--Egghead06 (talk) 06:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

Found this info on a seemingly reliable website: "Original Specials drummer Silverton Hutchinson had left the band just prior to the recording of Gangsters" http://2-tone.info/2tone.pl?rank10 Cls14 (talk) 10:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

He is mentioned in Horace the bass player's book Ska'd For Life, and in Neville the singer's book. Original Rude Boy. Pollythewasp (talk) 08:52, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Appearance on programme by Melvyn Bragg on "Class and Culture"

I am not sure whether this is informative enough to go in the article, but on Friday 9 March 2012, some members of the Specials appeared in a programme presented by Melvyn Bragg on social class, called "Melvyn Bragg on Class and Culture". If people who edit this article think it is an interesting and informative piece of information, it could be added to the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)