Talk:The Mousetrap/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Pending changes protection and alternatives to semi-protection

Well now that the article is no longer protected, anonymous editors can now edit out the ending of the play(despite comments in the article text saying not to do so). However, activity on the page is otherwise slow, so semi-protection would probably not be needed anymore. Also, semi-protection would turn away anonymous editors who want to make other kinds of edits (like correcting errors or adding information). Which among the following options would work so that the number of editors who want to remove or edit out the ending will decrease while at the same time allowing constructive editing from IPs?

• Pending changes protection
• An edit notice
• Nothing. The comments on the article text is enough

Any comments or feedback is appreciated. Thank you. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:46, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I think the "pending changes" protection is worth trying in this case. It will avoid having the ending removed every now and then for minutes or hours, and it's softer than semi-protection thus allowing anonymous edits. Diego (talk) 05:37, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Agreed, pending changes seems the way to go here - it will be obvious enough to the reviewer, in most cases, that blanking a section or replacing it with "the murder is... well, that would be telling" is inappropriate. --McGeddon (talk) 10:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I've requested it at requests for protection. Diego (talk) 12:28, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Georgie or Jim?

An editor corrected the murderer's identity from Georgie to Jim recently. Is this correct across all versions of the play? I remember noticing some name changes between the stage play and the original radio play, some time ago, but can't bring up the text of either right now. --McGeddon (talk) 15:18, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Performance Rights

• Under the "History" section, the article reads "Outside of the West End, only one version of the play can be performed annually," which is worded in such a way to make it seem as though the only production in the world is the West End one and one other one, which is untrue, since there are many productions of "The Mousetrap" currently in the US. Perhaps what the sentence means is that in the UK or London only one version of the play can be performed besides the West End one. It's an unclear and misleading statement that needs to be corrected by whoever has the source that's cited there, or else it needs to be deleted..76.114.226.76 (talk) 15:23, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
• What would happen if (say) some village school in England decided to put on a show of The Mousetrap for an annual school event? I remember a fuss and bother in the newspaper when a small school in England decided to put on West Side Story, and got on a long way with rehearsals; someone in USA heard of it and told the school to stop it; luckily it was before the school would have used much money and time making or buying costumes. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 10:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Moving edit notice to the main article

Now that the article's now only under pending changes protection instead of semi-protection, I was wondering if it would be a good idea to change the edit notice so that it will now instead display while editing the article itself. If this will be done, the edit notice's wording should be changed so that it will now say something like "any edits that will remove plot details will be reverted". Any thoughts? 103.14.60.178 (talk) 15:26, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's a good idea. Do you know how to access the edit notice at the article page to change it? Diego (talk) 16:14, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Is the plot summary original research?

Can anyone explain to me why the summary of the plot is not original research? Surely we need secondary sources, as with everything else? If not, why not? I only ask. Bluehotel (talk) 20:06, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Wikipedia:When_to_cite#When_a_source_may_not_be_needed - explicitly rules out the plot of a work of fiction. In general, it is not necessary to cite something which is not disputed; any reasonable person would agree that that is the plot of the play. Pinkbeast (talk) 20:52, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Unless someone plans to analyze the plot to cover plot elements or something of that nature a basic summary is fine. I don't see anything in the section that can be reasonably contested either.--174.93.163.194 (talk) 06:23, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

Plot summary makes little sense

The plot summary in its current version makes little sense. First, for instance, "the Corrigans" are mentioned without ever having been introduced. Second, Sergeant Trotter is described as "the eldest of the three Corrigan children," but we are then told that Miss Casewell is "Trotter's elder sister." Beyond these inconsistencies, it might help if other loose ends are tied up (e.g. what are the true reasons for Paravincini's apparently suspicious behaviour).

Anyhow, this version of the summary has at least the virtue of internal consistency. I propose to revert to that version unless there are strong objections. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 06:33, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Well, I for one would object if you literally mean to revert to that version, because there have been quite a number of edits made, some of which are considered and important. I think you need to make edits to the existing version, so we can see what's what. If that means you take quite a bit from the previous version, that is fine. That would be my view. Bluehotel (talk) 12:44, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

I prefer the older plot summary, for the same reasons. Pinkbeast (talk) 14:13, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Paravicini just doesn't make sense. :-) In "Three Blind Mice", it's a bit more explicit that he's a black marketeer, but knowing that doesn't really clarify the way he interacts with Trotter. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:22, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

I've hacked together an entirely new plot summary in my sandbox. It's undoubtedly overly detailed and in serious need of pruning and copyediting, but I'd be happy to put it in the article so it can be cut down to size (or to leave it in my sandbox for a bit so it can be cut down to size there). A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 18:14, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

It's the second part of the plot summary that's problematic, I think. In fact, I never entirely got it when I saw the play. Who the Corrigan children are, for example, needs explaining. Bluehotel (talk) 19:39, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

That's explained in the paragraph that starts "Trotter and Giles return and Trotter explains his purpose to the household" in my summary. The kids are a bit of a MacGuffin; they exist to be something that motivated the killer to kill. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 19:41, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

User:Fluffernutter's replacement plot summary is nearly 2000 words in length - MOS:PLOT recommends keeping plot summaries "between 400 and 700 words", so we really need to pare this back down. --McGeddon (talk) 13:57, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Identity of the murderer

All the time, editors come and seek to remove the identity of the murderer. This is then reverted on the basis that Wikipedia has established policy. Also bear in mind that, when an artist creates something and puts it into the world, they don't have any say in how people use it (except in vary rare cases where, eg a photographer or a painter, may have a contractual hold on the user). Agatha Christie may well have asked that the identity not be revealed. Well, she would, wouldn't she? So would those who own the commercial rights on the show. But she is dead and they have no say. Personally, I think the world would have been done a favor if everyone knew who did it and nobody went to see this tired and unconvincing play. However, the point is, if people want to know who did it, without seeing the play, they are entitled to find out in an encyclopedia. Bluehotel (talk) 11:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

I actually dont see the fact thsy she is dead as being the relevant issue . I am sure that we would keep the ending for Avatar if the still living Camrom made a similar request. While I am not a legal expert I doubt that authors/directors etc would not have the right to suspress stuff like this once the work is released for public consumption.--67.68.22.129 (talk) 06:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it is suggested that her death is the relevant issue, merely observing that there's no way of arguing the toss with her. Pinkbeast (talk) 13:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Agatha Christie's work is still copyrighted so I suppose that there is at least someone who has a say, even though I don't think that spoilers fall under copyright law. However, it is said that everyone watching the play or reading the script (which is not publicly available) has to swear not to reveal the ending. Does it count as a NDA ? Does it mean that revealing it is actually illegal for someone who has watched the play ? 217.109.123.82 (talk) 16:00, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Obviously not. They are asked not to reveal it; they don't sign a contract on the way out agreeing not to do it (and even if they did it would not be illegal, but a breach of contract... assuming that such a contract was valid; they'd have to be offered a quid pro quo for signing). Pinkbeast (talk) 16:43, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

If this was actually illegal I'm sure that Wikipedia's legal department would have taken the ending down a long time ago or there would have been suit by now. Also, while I am not a lawyer, I don't see any chance that being asked not to reveal something could possibility qualify as a legally binding contract. In short there is no NDA. If you unsure Wikipedia does have a legal department though I doubt that they would give a different answer.--69.157.252.247 (talk) 04:15, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

The script is publicly available, it's been sold in various printed book forms for decades, and the ending is revealed in textbooks that discuss the work, with no legal repercussion. Penguin Books, who have published one such collection of Christie's works, have an online teacher's guide which openly reveals the ending, rather than awkwardly apologising for not being legally able to and telling the students that they'll just have to read to the end of the script themselves. --McGeddon (talk) 07:51, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

The script has no wording asking the audience not to reveal the ending. Neither does the short story "Three Blind Mice." --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:20, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Even if it did I highly doubt that asking the audience to do that could possibly be considered a binding contract that would make posting the ending on Wikipedia illegal.--69.157.252.247 (talk) 02:24, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

And (although there is clearly no such contract) I for one have not seen the play, so I cannot possibly be a party to the (nonexistent) agreement with the audience. Pinkbeast (talk) 12:43, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

A Wikipedia article should be thorough enough to include a synopsis of a work's plot. The alternative is tantamount to saying you don't believe that Wikipedia articles on fictional works should be complete. There's really nothing else to say on the matter, is there? ▫ Urbane Legend ^chinwag 22:11, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Wow. People like you lot just make the world a little less bright, y'know? 86.12.186.46 (talk) 14:22, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Scandal (Detection Club)

Maybe a note in the article - after the murder has been revealed of course - would be in order that Mrs Christie broke the Seventh Commandment of the club she belonged to?--2001:A61:2084:1301:749B:3ED1:4D07:4992 (talk) 15:03, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

Have reliable sources discussed this as being a scandal or even an issue because it not it would be considered trivia?--64.229.167.158 (talk) 18:27, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Mr. M. Prichard's name

The article currently mentions Christie's grandson's name twice, one spelt "Mathew" (one "t"), the other spelt "Matthew" (two). Anyone know which is correct? --Mondo Beer (talk) 11:28, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

The Colwinston Charitable Trust, which he founded, spells it with one "t". DuncanHill (talk) 11:49, 11 June 2018 (UTC)