Talk:The Moody Blues/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

Are you sure your recent edit of The Moody Blues ([1]) is entirely fair? Given that this was a band that enjoyed most of its popularity in the UK and the US, US-centered phrasing is not entirely inappropriate (at the very least, the American POV should be given some heed). I agree, however, that the reference to the so-called British Invasion belongs in the body of the article, not in its first paragraph. -- Itai 17:45, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I just felt it was wrong to define the band in terms of their relationship to the US. They were a British band, not 'a band that were popular in the USA'. It certainly seems reasonable to mention the British Invasion later on, so I think we're essentially in agreement. --Auximines 09:06, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Always a happy state. I added the British Invasion note in relation to A Question of Balance (see [2]). The style could do with improvement, but I think that the bulk of the text is fine. Obviously, I can't vouch for this "factual accuracy" bit, but I honestly don't see why bother. Never let it bother me before. -- Itai 15:35, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The link Ray Thomas leads to a country singer with the same name but not to the (former) member of the Moody Blues. So do other links from different Moody Blues contexts. Could someone please fix this? I'm a guest from Germany who (at this moment) does not want to edit English articles... 82.207.252.251 16:36, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Hall of fame

There has been some re-editing of the statement that the Moodys and Yes top the list of progressinve bands not inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Forgetting the wording, is the statement really accurate? Can we say that those two top the list instead of (say) ELP or King Crimson? I'm not saying that they don't - I'm honestly not sure. Carlo 03:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

I edited that sentence to try to make it better, because I had to read it about 3 times to understand what it was saying, with the "since Pink Floyd" part at the end. But i don't know about the factual accuracy. It is probably a little bit of an opinion too (to say they are at the top of the list). Bubba73 (talk), 03:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Record label

Regarding the Moody Blues pioneering the trend of bands starting their own labels...Didn't the Beatles do this with Apple Records in 1968? While they certainly were among the first, I think the article as it is now gives the impression that they were breaking new ground here...The Disco King 22:18, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

That's true. Bubba73 (talk), 03:34, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know how many albums the Moodies have sold worldwide? How many gold, platinum albums and singles? Also, it might be nice to mention the recent Nashville Tribute to the Moody Blues: Moody Bluegrass.

Sectioning

This page should either be sectioned or labeled as a stub. As the information contained seems somewhat expansive, sectioning would be the most appropriate to make this article more navigable.

So go for it. Carlo 21:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Album Covers

The covers of the compilation albums should be posted.

I once had a Moody Blues Greatest Hits Album, and it had only 11 songs. A disc called The Story of the Moody Blues: Legend of a Band plays the same thing as their Greatest Hits album version, but with one difference: Added to the disc is the song called "The Other Side of Life", a song that was missing in the album version. Did anybody notice the difference between both versions? --Angeldeb82 00:20, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Citation

Carol Ali thinking that they are the best band in the world and her son claiming that Nirvana is the best band in the world needs to be cited. 67.188.172.165 23:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Recording Techniques

It would be extremely helpful and interesting to have a listing of multitrack recording machines -- specifically the number of tracks -- on the Moodies' recordings throughout the years, especially the early years, when 8 tracks were really something special. The Beatles used 4 track recording on all their records... did not the Moodies use 8 tracks, then perhaps move on to 16 or 24? If anyone knows, I'd really like to be informed how many tracks were used on each album. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by C-post (talk • contribs) 00:45, 12 January 2007 (UTC).

Live at Red Rocks

I heard that there's a 2-disc deluxe edition of the Live at Red Rocks DVD. Does anybody know the exact title of this, or if it's possible to buy it in the USA? Naaj 20:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure the DVD was released as a 2-disc set, but the CD was. I have the 1-disc album and personally was miffed when the 2-disc re-master came out. NekoOuterverse 18:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Tour 2007

Man... those guys are over 60 and STILL touring!?!? Kudos to those Veteran Cosmic Rockers! Elwin Blaine Coldiron 03:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Time Traveller album

The Moody Blues released a 5-CD collection called Time Traveller in 1994. A quick word search of the article shows only brief references of this album. Should this be rectified? -NordsternMN 21:50, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Core 7

It may be helpful to define the "Core 7" albums mentioned in the "1990s, new millennium, and present" section. I assume it's Days of Future Passed through Seventh Sojourn.Alanraywiki 04:36, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Graphic images

I think it would be helpful to replace the 'Hayward and Lodge live in 2007' image with something more graphically stimulating, as it is rather dark and unappealing in relation to the overall page. Jbrene 03:45, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Origin of Name

The article currently says, "The name developed from a planned sponsorship from the M&B Brewery and was also a subtle reference to the Duke Ellington song, "Mood Indigo".

Given that the band came up during the era when British bands were heavily influenced by American bluesmen, (e.g. Rolling Stones named from Muddy Waters' song), isn't it at least possible that they took their name from the Slim Harpo tune "Moody Blues"? The link to Mood Indigo is surely too "subtle" for their (at the time) teen target audience. Maybe someone should ask them....

Gforce1948 (talk) 01:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Somebody did. It's in a Mike Pinder Interview, which I just sourced. Carlo (talk) 02:01, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Personnel

Julie Ragins joined the touring band no later than 2006. And Rod Clark should not be forgotten, he was the bass guitarist from July through October, 1966. He was later in the Rockin´ Berries, Storyteller and other bands. -- Best, SpVggLieth (talk) 10:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Personnel section overhaul and merge

I've just completed a serious overhaul on the personnel page, and as such it's now relatively short; it feels to me that it should be merged back into the band article. Thoughts? - Carefree Highway

That looks amazing. Well done. I took it upon mysefl to separate off the personnel page only because it was too unwieldy and made the article too long. I would certainly have no objection if it was now moved back in its attractive new form. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Lead vocals in Discography.

Please, post information of who sang lead vocals music by music, album by album. Much fans dont know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.8.96.84 (talk) 04:03, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Moody Blues discography

•The thing at the bottom of the page points to pink floyd discography. Somebody should make a separate discography page and link to it maybe?

I removed the errant Pink Floyd Discography link. JustinW NJ 03:39, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I like the album list being on the main page, but a more detailed discography page with the album covers would be good. Abstrator 19:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

•One compilation title is missing, "The Story of the Moody Blues... Legend of a Band". Released 1990 as Polydor 840 659-2. It might have been reissued as Greatest Hits later on. NekoOuterverse 18:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

More on this: Should someone create an article on Greatest Hits, I believe that it should make reference to both names for the album in the article, but should not have seperate articles since they are the same album. NekoOuterverse 14:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

•I'm not familiar with the album, but it looks as if "Prelude (Compilation of 1967-69 odds & ends) (London 820517 -- 1987)" should be in the section with the lineup for the recordings, rather than date of release. Abstrator 19:43, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

•There's been a new live album released, Live at the BBC 1967-1970 and I have added a small bit about it after the remark from John Lodge and before the Hall of fame paragraphs in "1990s, new millennium, and present" and also updated the discography template accordingly. NekoOuterverse 14:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Whoever thought to mark the chronology in the singles list is, if not a genius, certainly an extremely thoughftul person! Kudos!!FlaviaR 14:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I was surprised to read that "Legend of a Mind" was a tribute to Timothy Leary. Anyone who has heard the main refrain: "Timothy Leary's dead, no he's outside, looking in" would be hard pressed to describe this as a tribute. The music, the sound, is fantastic, but this is a song that mocks the great "Guru." mds 14:32 9 Jun 2009 PDT. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.178.21 (talk) 21:34, 9 June 2009 (UTC) In "Caught Live +5," Ray Thomas specifically tells the audience the song is a tribute to Leary. This introduction hints the refrain is about the trouble Leary got into over his LSD advocacy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.100.166.184 (talk) 15:45, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 06:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Nicky James should be removed from the 'Former members' area at bottom of article, as he was never a member of the group from the time the MB were officially formed in May 1964. Jbrene 03:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

In production and arrangement the album drew inspiration from the pioneering use of the classical instrumentation by The Beatles to whom Pinder had introduced the Mellotron that year. If you take a look at the wikipedia page about the Mellotron , it is obvious that this claim was made by Pinder and not necessarily a truism. Maybe it needs citation? --60darling (talk) 10:05, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Moody Blues sales figures.

I am somewhat puzzled by the oft quoted sales figures for Moodies albums being around the 55 million mark. Sadly I am of an age where I remember this figure being quoted in 1975! Have they not sold a single thing since then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.4.188.139 (talk) 21:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

They probably have sold (much) more, but there seems to be some sort of issue with numbers before a certain time being unofficial and thus not a reliable source. --60darling (talk) 17:03, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Collectively managed?

I saw them in concert in the early 1980s and remember reading in the concert program that the members of the group managed the group as a collective with each member taking responsibility for particular aspects of management. If my memory isn't failing and this is true, it would be unique for a major group to operate this way. However, I am not able to confirm this now. I hope that someone who knows and can confirm this will add this to the article if it is/was true. 118.171.134.217 (talk) 03:40, 29 March 2012 (UTC)This was true, their intial management team 'did a runner' with all the money from 'Go Now' in 1965, thereafter they never had a proper management as such - check 'Classic Artists' DVD which tells of how they were not properly signed to Decca but to the management team, after losing all the money re 'Go Now' they then went and signed to Decca. Brian Epstein was considering taking them on (apparently at Paul McCartney's suggestion) but died before doing so in 1967.They later set up & ran Threshold Records themselves. Grella

regarding Mike Pinder needing a rest

"An additional cause of the hiatus were the long tours that had by this time strained Mike Pinder who needed a rest.[citation needed]"

The twentyfifth anniversary video of the Moodies has Justin saying exactly that on camera. That is a credible citation. 98.167.164.25 (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Longthinker

Sounds like an album review

The following section is an example that sounds more like a commentary than an objective statement of facts. It is found in the "Octave, Pinder departs, and arrival of Moraz" section.

"In truth, a few songs sounded like solo efforts, while Lodge's "Survival", Hayward's appropriate closing "The Day We Meet Again" and Pinder's lone final contribution and lead vocal, "One Step Into The Light" (curiously as the band is depicted as doing so on the cover photo – where Pinder is perhaps significantly barely glimpsed at all and almost out of focus) were all high points on the album. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.149.25.162 (talk) 16:40, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

article lacks citations, often reads like a fan's opinion, not encyclopedic

Needs serious NPOV pruning and good, solid references for many sections. I'm as big a fan of (classic) Moodies as anyone, but this needs work.HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:19, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Unsourced opinion re: Long Distance Voyager

Much of the paragraph about the Long Distance Voyager album is taken up at fans lamenting the loss of Michael Pinder although no source for this POV is given. Without a source, the fans (or more accurately, some fans) opinion of his departure and how it affects the songwriting of the album is just that: opinion and has no place here. I plan on deleting it and redoing the paragraph unless someone can source what's there. DragonsDream (talk) 06:23, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

It should be removed. Especially the last part about older fans missing Pinder but staying loyal. That's no thing to put in an encyclopedia. --60darling (talk) 09:53, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry "Grella" but that's not how Wiki works. Verifiability, not truth, and all that. We summarize what Reliable Sources say.HammerFilmFan (talk) 20:21, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Section under <Break and Solo Work>

It seems strange to me that this section does not include Hayward's "Forever Autumn" Should we add the section directly from the "forever Autumn" section of Wikipedia that simply states

During this time, the producer of Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of "The War of the Worlds" wanted to include a love song on the album that sounded like "Forever Autumn", and he decided that the best course of action was to simply use the original song. Wayne chose Hayward to sing it saying that he "wanted that voice from 'Nights in White Satin'". It was recorded at London's Advision Studios in 1976. The song reached #5 on the UK Singles Chart in August 1978.

Would any one take exception to this being added? PMCALIFNH

Please don't add it unless you can find a reliable source. The wikipedia article is not a reliable source. Schazjmd (talk) 14:30, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Thanks and I will certainly do. Thanks so much. I definitely saw a video of Justin Himself remembering the conversation exactly as it is described in the Wikipedia reference - I remember Justin answered the phone and Jeff asked "Are you the guy who sang "Nights in White Satin?". If the video is all there is, it may be ephemeral and I will try to find a good source — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7080:4D43:F700:B91E:D7D5:2857:91A (talk) 15:21, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

I found the reference from Justin himself. Thanks for the Feedback Schazjmd! — Preceding unsigned comment added by PMCALIFNH (talk • contribs) 16:00, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Not progressive

This contention that the Moody Blues was progressive is sourced in a sense, but the sources appears to know essentially nothing about music, and since music is the subject here, that should make them less than reputable. The Moody Blues sang simple folk-like diatonic melodies with simple triadic harmonic accompaniment and simple rhythms and never displayed any significant degree of instrumental virtuosity whatsoever. There is no substantive reference in their music to classical traditions (hiring someone to write orchestral accompaniments is not a substantive reference) or jazz. All this keeps them quite apart from groups like King Crimson, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, Yes, Procol Harum, and even Jethro Tull. Musically their songs were really more akin to those of Hermans’s Hermits or Donovan or The Bee Gees, as The Bee Gees were in the late sixties—long before their disco period. (Lyrically the Moodies were different enough from these groups—especially the Hermits, but the term “progressive has to do with music, not lyrics) TheScotch (talk) 18:19, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Ok, maybe not "classic prog rock". But Herman's Hermits or the Bee Gees? Really?? I mean... if Mike, Ray, Graeme and Justin decide to all drop a few tabs together (over a period of 18 months), the end result was never gonna be "Mrs. Brown, You've Got a Lovely Daughter", was it? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:28, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Brown is arguably the Hermits's most widely known record, but that doesn't necessarily make it their most typical, which is not to suggest that when I compared the Moodies's music (not lyrics) to the Hermits that I necessarily meant the Hermits at their most typical; it's just that I didn't mean Brown or Henry VIII either. How about pretty much any song at all from their "Blaze" album (which I what, along with the Hush album, immediately jumps to my mind when I think of the Hermits)? The reference to the Bee Gees was specifically to their late sixties period. I was thinking particularly of their 1967 album "Bee Gees' 1st" (which was actually their third album). "Cucumber Castle", "Every Christian Lion-Hearted Man Will Show You", "New York Mining Disaster 1941" could all be Moodies's songs (more or less) to my ear. "Turn of the Century" doesn't strike me as all that different stylistically from the Moodies's "Lazy Day". I didn't intend to disparage the Moodies here, by the way. I like a substantial portion of their stuff--and, for that matter, a substantial portion of the output of every act I've mentioned above. Anyway, if you don't approve of the Hermits and Bee Gees comparisons, how about, say, the New Seekers (compare "I'll Never Find Another You" with "Emily's Song") and the Association (compare "Along Comes Mary" with "The Story in Your Eyes") The point is that on a scale spanning from bubblegum/folk-rock to progressive (or from progressive to bubblegum/folk-rock, if you prefer), the Moodies needle would shoot decisively toward bubblegum/folk-rock and away from progressive. TheScotch (talk) 19:48, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Well ok, perhaps Judith Durham and crew are closer (certainly to the lullaby-like Hayward compositions). But I fear we're rapidly descending into WP:FORUM territory here. We should just go with the genre(s) given in WP:RSs. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:08, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

The Scotch - have you actually listened to the Moodies' "core seven" LPs ? RGCorris (talk) 22:43, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

I’m of an age such that the “core seven” is synonymous for me with The Moody Blues. The “core seven” is what I’m talking about, although the only difference between, for example, “Your Wildest Dreams” and a “core seven” song is the throbbing eighties beat, which is merely cosmetic. This song is no less (and no more) progressive than their earlier material and no more (and no less) melodic in a simple diatonic and very tonal (in contradistinction to modal like most other non-progressive, non-bubblegum rock) manner. As for “going with the genre given”: it doesn’t matter what groups you might compare them with; that “genre given” is just plain wrong. The Moodies are not and never were the slightest bit progressive, and that should be glaringly obvious to anyone who knows the slightest thing about music. TheScotch (talk) 09:09, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

No-one here is in the slightest bit interested in any editor's personal opinions. What matters is what reliable sources say. If those sources say that the Moody Blues' music was at the time referred to as "progressive music" (I was there, and it was), that is what the article here should say. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:43, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

The Scotch - then I guess you are working on a very narrow definition of what comprises progressive rock music. RGCorris (talk) 11:04, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

The Scotch - the band gets five mentions at Progressive rock, so maybe also ask over there? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:10, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

I’m not “working on a very narrow definition of what comprises progressive rock”; I’m working on a MUSICAL definition, and my point is that that the sources in question are NOT reputable, because they are not musically knowledgeable. Cite Grove for me, and I’ll back down. Ghmyritle rebukes me for putatively proffering my “personal opinions”, of which he maintains “no one is interested” (not even those who specifically asked) while nevertheless assuming a brisk market for his own alleged personal experience, which, as it happens, flatly contradicts mine. (I was there too, and I never heard or read of anyone calling the Moody Blues progressive until decades later. The first use of the term I encountered applied to Emerson, Lake, and Palmer followed quickly by Yes-—the application to King Crimson was a bit retroactive, Crimson was originally called “art-rock”—and then eventually to a flurry of less successful groups, such as Gentle Giant, and so on. The parentheses are here to show that I intend this observation as an aside) TheScotch (talk) 16:29, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Not sure Grove does ELP. Could we put parentheses around this entire thread? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:38, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

This musicologist counts them as a progressive rock band. So does this book from 1997, so does the research library at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. You can find hundreds of reliable, honest-to-god music and musicological sources that classify them as a progressive rock band. Can we put this to rest now? --Jayron32 17:27, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

This has to be the most absurd argument I've heard. When Days of Future Passed was released, it was considered an extension of and beyond Sergeant Pepper's, and they are considered perhaps THE proto-prog/prog band. The fact that they don't meet your academic abstraction about what you personally define as progressive rock has literally no bearing on their place and influence in musical history. For an obvious example, Genesis' first album (under any of its names) could not be more heavily indebted to the Moody Blues. 72.35.120.7 (talk) 15:30, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

And this is why, IMHO, genre categorising of bands is taken far too seriously, largely a matter of opinion, to be taken with a large pinch of salt, and of questionable value at the best of times. But whatever, we must work to what sources say. Good sources are agreed on prog rock. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 19:13, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Very valid point. Although Auntie BBC, in her wisdom, in her 2001 documentary Top Ten Progressive Rock, placed the Moodies at No. 3 - surpassed only by Posh Prog and (of course) The Floyd. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:29, 24 February 2021 (UTC) {p.s. as usual, copyvio full programme available on YT)

moody blues album not listed anywhere?

I have a compilation album which appears to have been released between Long Distant Voyager and The Present, titled "Eternity in an Hour" (1981) on Decca Records (MX205914) distributed through Threshold Records.(OZ 003) The album cover has an hour glass on it. 123.243.166.123 (talk) 05:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)