Talk:The Lion King II: Simba's Pride

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Story origin

This was almost a section too ample for the Lion King (Part I) article. But what about a possible story origin to Part 2? (this) Well, personally I think the story bears some blatant similarities to West Side Story: there are two parties that do not get around with each other (Simba's and Zira's pack vs. the Jets and the Sharks). And one from the one party falls in love with the other from the enemy party. And each "leader" of the two parties try with all their might to destroy this love affair for good. Eventually, there's peacefulness between both parties and the previously enemy parties come to terms. That's so West Side Story. -andy 77.190.8.126 (talk) 07:29, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Return to Pride Rock: Songs Inspired by Disney's The Lion King II: Simba's Pride

I believe this section should be split and have its own article, just as The Lion King (soundtrack).--NeoBatfreak (talk) 18:31, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Return to Pride Rock: Songs Inspired by Disney's The Lion King II: Simba's Pride is created - a bit of cleanup is still needed. Duttler (talk) 02:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kovu: adopted?

I see this statement under Kovu's bulletpoint on the character list, and the only possible source I can see for it is a screencap of a Facebook post. How can that be a reliable source? ggctuk (2005) (talk) 19:21, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done Uncited information can be challenged and removed at anytime. With no source provided for this bit of analysis, it has been removed. --McDoob AU 93 19:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Changes to the plot and lead

Hello. Over the past few days, an IP editor has been repeatedly making changes to the lead and plot sections which some of us have disagreed with ([1], [2], [3],). For example, the IP has said in one of their edit summaries here that "[Simba] wasn't being "overprotective", he just wanted to make sure [Kiara] doesn't get hurt." However, the Variety review refers to Simba as an overprotective father. Also, the statement that Simba is a villain is probably an interpretation since he's one of the series' lead protagonists, and I can't find any secondary sources for that particular statement at the present.

Since I don't want to risk any further edit warring (and this is my third revert within 24 hours), I've restored the plot and most of the lead sections to the WP:STATUSQUO version and opened up a discussion here for others to give their say about this.

Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:15, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The words "evil", "overprotective" and "rogue" are opinions and shouldn't be in article, even if backed by the opinions of a sourced reviewer. WP:ANTAGONIST suggests that "Subjective interpretation using labels" be avoided and that applies to those characterizations. Other changes don't appear to improve the article. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:23, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see. I've removed the subjective interpretations. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:28, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While the page has been fully protected for at least a week and I have also notified WP:FILM, WP:ANIMATION and WP:DISNEY for their thoughts on the matter, I would like to discuss some potential changes to the plot summary.

For example, regarding Nuka's and Zira's deaths, the important part is that they're respectively killed in the Outlanders' ambush on Simba and the final battle, the means (crushed to death by logs and falling to death by a flash flood), not so much. Also, regarding Simba's nightmare and accepting Kovu for rescuing Kiara, I think we can rewrite it as "Simba, although troubled by visions of his father Mufasa's death, reluctantly accepts Kovu's place since he rescued Kiara."

Any other ideas or suggestions? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:19, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So I agree that we can't use terms like vindictive, evil, etc. It's no different to using protagonist and antagonist, it's giving an opinion on their morality. I agree on the reverts of the plot as well as unnecessary as we don't need to be itemizing how people die unless it's something significant like the dad in the previous film being trampled to death.

Having not seen this film, or having seen it as a child and forgotten, I will suggest some potential plot improvements:

"As a child, Kiara grows frustrated with her father's parenting. Simba dispatches his childhood friends Timon and Pumbaa to follow her." This doesn't make a great deal of sense, why is she frustrated with his parenting and why are Timon and Pumba sent to follow her? Based on the following sentence I'd maybe suggest "The young Kiara grows frustrated with her father's (strict?) parenting (and wanders off alone?), so Simba has his childhood friends Timon and Pumbaa follow her (are they secretly or openly following her?)
"When Kovu retaliates to Kiara's playing, Simba confronts the young cub" So what is happening here? Is Simba misinterpreting it as a fight? If so it might be worth saying something like "When Simba comes across Kovu and Kiara playing, he misinterprets it as fighting and confronts Kovu..."
"and she says Kovu was to succeed Simba's uncle Scar." is there a reason for this? Is he related to Scar? I assume not since his relationship with Kiara becomes less child-friendly but it's unclear. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 10:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've incorporated the above changes in my sandbox, along with my potential plot rewrite for this article (which is currently at 470 words). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:07, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Zira's death

This clip of the ending shows that Zira attacks Simba, Kiara gets in the way, and then they both fall off the cliff. Zira falls further, Kiara tries to save her, but she falls to her death anyway. The article currently reads "Zira, however, tries attacking Simba, but Kiara throws her off a nearby cliff to her death." It seems to me that nobody realizes how close they are to the cliff, Zira surprises them, and they end up going over in the fight. Why would Kiara throw Zira off the cliff intentionally, especially after being caught off guard and successfully facilitating the reconciliation between everyone else moments before? Why would she then try to save Zira if it was intentional? Why can't the phrasing be more like "Zira, however, tries attacking Simba, but falls off a nearby cliff to her death despite Kiara's efforts to save her" when that is actually what happens in the plot without having to ascertain anyone's intentions regarding Zira's death? RockRiverTree (talk) 13:49, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:FILMPLOT, we should avoid scene-by-scene breakdowns and unneeded detail. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 13:56, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, but the current description assigns blame for the death in a way that is inaccurate. Writing "Zira, however, tries attacking Simba, but falls off a nearby cliff to her death" is shorter, has less detail, and is more accurate. The added detail of Kiara being responsible also doesn't make sense in the context of the plot, where Kiara's whole journey is about reuniting the two warring prides. Why would she then murder her adversary? I'd also argue that Kiara trying to save Zira isn't an unneeded detail at all, and is extremely consistent with her arc in the film and provides further contrast between her and Zira. RockRiverTree (talk) 14:07, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]