Talk:The Kite Runner

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2019 and 8 May 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cas461.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:04, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Spoiler in Lead

I'm going[[ to change the mention of Amir's redemption and Hassan's betrayal in the lead as I think it's too much of a spoiler. --MarkBuckles 09:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Also the fact that he killed his mother during child birth has a very large effect on the story and has alot to do with his guilt this should propably be added in there somewhere. Urahozerpwns

If people are looking up books in Wikipedia before they have read them, they are EXPECTING spoilers.

I'm not sure that's true. I came just to see what people are talking about. Is there any reason why there isn't a spoiler alert? Tb3 19:39, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that the importance of Wikipedia is that we provide the public with information on a subject that someone might be curious about. If they want to know what happens in the novel, they should expect to find it here. So, I believe that if they don't want to know, they should ignore the sections about plot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cas461 (talk • contribs) 18:03, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Character List: Spoil or Lie?

Spoiler: how do we reconcile the description of Hassan? Hassan is not the son of Amir's father's servant, he]] is Hassan's father's son, or his own half brother. No use lying, is there?

I opted to describe Ali and Hassan as their relationship is initially presented in the book. The real relationship isn't revealed until after Hassan has died, and the characters never relate to each other as half brothers, so describing them as half brothers would be just as inaccurate. The character descriptions also do not mention the death of Baba, though this clearly affects his role in the last half of the book. Shoehorn 18:56, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong the book does point out that they are half brothers. Sooo... your dumb! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.167.193.30 (talk) 04:22, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah how you like me now Shoehorn!!!!! OH, and sorry i didn't see the no personal attacks thing so my bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.167.193.30 (talk) 04:26, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Literary Significance

I think that maybe this section could be added onto a little more, perhaps listing a few programs that are using the book. I can tell you right now that UT Arlington is using it in a program for all incoming freshmen so they have one thing in common, and it's used in English classes. Dragonfire 20:54, September 4, 2006

Plot Summary

I just copy-edited the plot summary (fixing up the English and moving some things around so it was more coherent). MlleDiderot 22:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)MlleDiderot

We seem to be repeating a lot of effort here -- there was an [1] earlier version of the plot summary that was more polished than the current one. Shoehorn 05:16, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

There are still some issues with the English: for example, the word football is used instead of soccer. There are also some issues with sentence fluency.

Fiction or non-fiction?

There is no mention of this in the article, so I want to ask. Lightblade 22:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

If the book is listed under "novel," there is always a fair bet that it is mainly, if not completely, fictional. The LC classification is PS3608.O832K58 (PS = American Literature). Furthermore, popular subject headings (according to librarything) include Afghanistan Fiction, Betrayal Fiction, Boys Fiction, etc. So, yeah; fiction. :) María (habla conmigo) 16:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Assef-character

Is the Assef character not in the film? And when he isn't; why is he let out? Randalph P. Williams 10:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Criticism

Isnt it convenient that Mr. Hosseini, forgets to mention the post-2001 warth of the US raining down bombs on the Afghanis? Well, inconvenient truths are to be forgotten, or we dont make the NYT best seller lists do we?

-Indian-kid.

And another inconvenient truth is that you're vilifying an author despite obviously not having read his book. It's hard to imagine this novel being any more anti–Taliban. Or have I missed the point of your snide remark? --ShelfSkewed Talk 03:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it's just a money grab (don't want to piss off your audience with the cold hard truth) or maybe it's more politcal. Propaganda. If anyone has any sources, we can add something.

-G

Irrelevant nonsequitur from indiankid 71.176.227.46 (talk) 05:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Languages?

I recently read the book, however, I would like to know what languages the main characters, and others characters that speak different languages (there are quite few). The movie is in Persian, I've heard, and I think the Pashtun people speak their own language, but I'm not sure what languages Amir, Hassan and the rest of the people in that town speak, other than English after some move to America. Can anyone clear this up? Is it perhaps purposely ambiguous? In the book, it mentioned 'Farsi', which I suppose is another name for Persian, so is that about it? 65.189.170.90 04:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The characters in the movie speak in the Persian language, also known natively as Farsi, Parsi, or sometimes Dari in Afghanistan. Persian is the English name for the Parsi (or Farsi) language. -- Behnam 19:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I should disagree with Behnam and above him. The movie is not in Persian and they (Amir, Hassan) do not speak Farsi (Persian). They speak Dari which is quite different in accent, grammar,... although they have the same roots. Me as a Farsi speaker hardly understand 80% of it. Notice that some of players are Iranian and they try to speak Dari with their own accent! Pashtuns speak pashto which I do not understand at all! Rezaghp (talk) 07:37, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The language in the movie is Dari (stemming from the king dariush) it is the afghan dialect of Persian which in iran is farsi (parsi), thus the probably loose, use of Dari and Farsi interchangeably. Many people who are literate in either dialect can understand the other. e.g for me persian is a second language so I struggle to understand farsi freely, but for my parents, who are literate in it, can understand both dialects perfectly. It must also be noted that the dari spoken by the main actor (adult amir) is how a non-native dari speaker would speak, in that it is not clear or accurate in its pronunciation. Besides Dari there are many other languages in afghanistan as it is a multi-ethnic country. One other language used in the book is pashtu, which is also spoken by many afghans. Avista (talk) 01:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

To emphasis what was said above, the language that is represented in the movie is Dari, which is a Persian language and is closly related to Farsi, which is spoken in Iran. Despite a very close relation, Dari and Farsi have been officially recognized as seperate languages by the Afghan, Iranian, and American governments, among others. So the intended representation is of Dari, but since not all of the actors are native Dari speakers, the actual dialog isn't perfect. Rodwa4 (talk) 18:56, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Book and film plot

The_Kite_Runner_(film)#Plot refers for the plot to The_Kite_Runner#Plot, so I edited the latter based on the film. If necessary we can copy the plot to the film article so that we can edit both independently.--Patrick (talk) 12:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I copied the plot to the film article and adapted it there.--Patrick (talk) 11:41, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Bad link

Unfortunately the link to Baba's orphanage does not work. Does anyone know the good one? Blue cave (talk) 17:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Removing plot information

Removing relevant and accurate information from an article is rarely a good idea, and I am entirely unconvinced by any argument that "plot spoilers" should be removed from an encyclopedic article. Perhaps--perhaps--if this were the only available source of information, then an argument might be made, but removing plot information from this article will not prevent cheating or thwart those determined to read about the book before actually reading the book. There are endless numbers of sites with this information, and removing it from the Wikipedia article merely hurts the article without helping anyone. I would like to restore that info the article, but I've already reverted those deletions twice in the past few days. Other opinions/options?--ShelfSkewed Talk 15:14, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Just sticking my head in here, but let's keep in mind WP:SPOILER: "It is not acceptable to delete information from an article about a work of fiction because you think it spoils the plot." Albeit, this comes from an essay and not a true guideline or policy, but it's heavily adhered to. Also remember that Wikipedia is not censored. Our job is to be an encyclopedia, not to protect the readers. :) María (habla conmigo) 17:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Factually Inaccurate, Emotionally Moving

Islamic Jihadists, al-Qaeda, the Taliban etc. absolutely do NOT tolerate homosexual behaviour. The penalty can be death. Flogging is the usual penalty for adultry. In the most egregious cases, the woman is shot in the head and the man is beheaded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TimeDog (talk • contribs) 16:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually the Taliban widely practiced homosexuality. See this mini documentary.

That is complete and absolute nonsense! Your link isn't a documentary. It's something someone made on their personal computer. Th U.S. "Psyops" also widely publicized forged poems which they themselves had written and attributed to Khomeini during the Iranian hostage crisis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.54.218.179 (talk) 07:57, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

There is truth in both of your comments, the above mentioned organizations very strongly comdemn homosexual behavior publicly, but like anywhere else there is hypocrisy, and therefore homosexuality is practiced to some extent in these organizations. Rodwa4 (talk) 18:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

And besides, the book is a work of fiction, remember? Hosseini decided to have a Taliban character who was also a homosexual rapist and child-abuser, and we chose to document the character, as a good, complete encyclopaedia should. James.Denholm®^{Talk to me...} 11:55, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

And furthermore, pedophilia is the reality in Afghanistan (and they don't count that to homosexuality), see here Afghanistan's dirty little secret - August 29, 2010; also added this in the article under criticisms --Tcheh (talk) 20:30, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

It might be worth considering that in some cases male rape is not necessarily seen as "homosexuality" but more of a sign of contempt for the victim. It is not unknown for males to be raped before being killed to add to their humiliation. (79.190.69.142 (talk) 22:02, 1 December 2011 (UTC))

This is not the place to discuss whether or not homosexuality occurs in Afghanistan. This article is about a work of fiction, not about actual sexual relations in an actual country. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:42, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

This article is not a reaction to the book, it is merely a summary of the book. Your reaction is not neutral and does not fit with the Wikipedia guidelines.NinoBarbati (talk) 15:49, 24 February 2021 (UTC)Nino for class

The Father

Please note 'Baba' is not the father's actual name. 'Baba' means father. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.185.36 (talk) 23:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was about to change it but the actual name of Amir's father is if at all only mentioned in passing (and I cannot find it)... the man is frequently referred to as "Aga sahib", but "Aga" would seem to be a honorific/title (cf. "General sahib" for Soraya's father). I have adjusted it regardless, you might want to check it out. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 18:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

why two characterlists?

Maybe my eyes are lying to me, but I certainly see two topics about "Characters". Can somebody delete it? Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarteto (talk • contribs) 20:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

 Done Keith D (talk) 22:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

cognitive dissonance

I think a link to cognitive dissonance should be added as that it is THE main theme that runs through the entire book. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.186.195.16 (talk) 04:53, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Assef race?

The article only notes that his mother is german and he is of mixed origin despite the book explicitly describes his white skin, blonde hair, and blue eyes. I don't know why the author made the only white kid in the book the evilest most psychotic homosexual child-rapist, but I think the article should make note of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.211.103 (talk) 21:22, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

I think the article shouldnt note this, this is probably no coincidence, but either of no importance or with anything racist in mind, or just allusion to him liking hitler and to the similarities between National Socialism and the Taliban-style islamofascism. --Tcheh (talk) 20:33, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

No, it should be mentioned. It is no coincidence and it is intentional. I find it extremely racist and it's just the author's way of putting the blame of the Taliban on the West. How mature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.10.46.8 (talk) 11:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Criticism

There seem to be nothing but praises as to its literary quality; the only criticism is of its politics. It cannot possibly be unanimous that it was a good book. Shouldn't a complete view of its reception be included? For instance, there is nothing to hint that it has been called predictable, which it almost certainly has; if I still had my copy, I could fetch a quote that completely telegraphed the outcome of the climax. --Daniel Draco (talk) 06:22, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality of Themes Section

I was reading through the article and noticed that the themes section had a clear bias. The section is:

The Kite Runner is a story with all the grand "themes of literature and life". It is a "vivid and engaging story that reminds us how long Khaled Hosseini's people have been struggling to triumph over the forces of violence". It is about "friendship and betrayal" and the arbitrary "price of loyalty". Themes of "love, honor, guilt, fear and redemption" are all included in this "extraordinary novel".[16][17]

This section is written like a review more than anything else. I think that at the least, it should be re-written to comply with the guidelines. Anyone else agree with me? John Collier (talk) 02:43, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the themes section should be merged with the reception section, and the name of the author should be given. Otherwise, there is no place on Wikipedia for such non-neutral nonsenses. HeadlessMaster (talk) 20:35, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Kite Runner/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Diannaa (talk · contribs) 17:23, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to review. --1ST7 (talk) 17:27, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi 1ST7. I have started with some copy edits; I hope you don't mind. Here are a few issues that I need your help with:

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose: clear and concise, correct spelling and grammar:

   • The article contains too many quotations and not enough paraphrasing. Please put more of the material into your own words to improve the flow and make the prose more interesting to read. In particular, the section "General" ends with two very long quotations. Please consider paraphrasing one or both of these, as well as some of the other shorter quotations throughout the article. The quotes from reviewers can even be paraphrased if it is done carefully.  Done --1ST7 (talk) 19:20, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
   • No spelling or grammatical errors were found.

   B. Complies with MoS for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

   • Please place citations in numerical order. For example, [6][7][3] becomes [3][6][7] (not a GA requirement, but nice to do)  Done --1ST7 (talk) 18:44, 11 August 2013 (UTC)
   • Dabsolver, Citation Bot, and reflinks found no technical errors.

2. Sourcing:

   A. Provides references, with in-line citations from reliable sources where necessary:

   • All material is sourced to high-quality periodicals. Citation templates are efectively used throughout. No technical errors were found in the formatting of the citations.

   B. Contains no copyright violations or too-close paraphrasing:

   • Spot checks revealed no copyright violations or too-close paraphrasing.

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Main aspects are addressed:

   • We need some information on the publication history please. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Books for ideas on what material could be included here. At a minimum, list the initial publication and any other editions using info available at WorldCat. All other points required for articles about books (background, summary, style/genre, analysis, and reception) are adequately covered.  Done --1ST7 (talk) 21:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

   B. Remains focused:

   • The plot summary section of the article is too long, and is out of balance with the rest of the article. Please reduce the overall length of the section. Please work this section over under the assumption that many of your readers will not have read the book. I especially found the material about Part 3 to be confusing and overly detailed.  Done --1ST7 (talk) 19:48, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

4. Does it follow the neutral point of view policy?

   Fair representation without bias:

   • Opinions given are those of the sources

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   • All images are properly licensed

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   • Nice seclection of images, all appropriately captioned

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

The article will be placed on hold for one week to complete these tasks. Thank you for tackling improvements to this important article! -- Diannaa (talk) 18:32, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I think everything has been addressed. --1ST7 (talk) 21:56, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

I've done some more trimming. The amendments you made are good. All points are now addressed and I am passing the article to GA status. Congratulations, -- Diannaa (talk) 23:29, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks so much for reviewing. --1ST7 (talk) 23:32, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:The Kite Runner/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

A great article. It sure is! Randalph P. Williams 10:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 10:35, 29 June 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 08:14, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Suggestions for Lead

Overall, the lead exhibits great characteristics of a Wikipedia article.It includes an introductory sentence that pout's the Kite Runner in the topic of the first book written by Khaled Hoesseini. However, the lead could be improved on several bases. The lead does not include any description of the main section of the article. While it does allude to the themes of the book in the second paragraph, it does not make a direct link to either the elements of the plot or introduces the character's properly. Additionally, the first paragraph is the only time in the article that specifically alludes to the backdrop of the story such as the fall of Afghanistan's monarchy. For the most part, the lead is concise but could use the improvements previously mentioned to give a more general overview of the book. Raf3279 (talk) 13:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Some Suggestions for Improvements

Hi! After reviewing the article, I think the following changes could be made to improve its quality:

• The Characters section does well in giving an overview of the characters. However, Sohrab has more characterization than "the son of Hassan" that should probably be included in this section. Furthermore, the bottom of the character list includes "Jagila Taheri" and "Khanum Taheri." Soraya's mother's name is not Jagila, but rather, Jamila Taheri. Also, Khanum Taheri is Jamila. Khanum is a formal title used to refer to her. Similar to Sohrab, General Taheri and Jamila Taheri should also probably have at least some information given on them, even if it is as simple as "father/mother of Soraya."
• Also, I noticed that the external link to BookDrum does not work anymore because the website was shut down, and citation 23 has an invalid link. I could not find a replacement for either of these, so if someone can find one that would be great! Otherwise, the information cited from this link should be removed.
• Finally, the Other section in Adaptations lists multiple productions of plays but does not provide a citation for this information. The information should be removed from the article or corroborated. Ees129 (talk) 10:13, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

The lead is well written and discusses, in brief, most of the sections presented in the article. I think it would benefit from adding a brief sentence at the end explaining that the book drew controversy and was banned in many schools. Amycazares (talk) 16:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

References

Observation on Balance/Perspectives

While the article is neutral and comprehensive, I believe including more content on how the novel was received in Afghanistan and by the government would make a great addition under the section Critical reception.--Coco156 (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2021 (UTC)