Talk:Enneads

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On 30 October 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from The Enneads to Enneads. The result of the discussion was moved.

Dionysius

I added a notion of Dionysius in the prologue, because Augustine was not the reason Plotinus affected Eastern Christian thinking... Now that I think of it, it should probably mention the Cappadocian Fathers, who were clearly Neoplatonic in their thinking and preceded Dionysius. JSilvanus (talk) 18:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 October 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. No specific consensus for or against alternatives Enneads of Plotinus, Enneads (Plotinus), so not barring the possibility of a future RM involving other related topics and the new DAB page. (See WP:OTHEROPTIONS which loosely applies here. This discussion favors Enneads, but a future discussion may change that.) (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 15:09, 15 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Enneads → Enneads – The title should just be Enneads, like Meditations instead of The Meditations, a key Stoic philosophical text, or Misopogon rather than The Misopogon. Florificapis (talk) 09:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)— Relisting. Havelock Jones (talk) 10:13, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose for now. The current title is already somewhat ambiguous, as there are quite a lot of enneads, although you wouldn't know it from our article titles. In fact, singular "Ennead" is the title of an article about the nine major gods of Heliopolis in Egypt, although as the lead to that article says, there were several other enneads of Egyptian deities. Any group of nine books, nine deities, or some other discrete item could be referred to as an "ennead". Wikipedia already has articles about a novel and an architectural firm both named "Ennead". There are also articles about things named for the number 19, which begin with "Ennead", and presumably "Eneados" could easily be confused for this by anyone uncertain of the spelling, or who sees the title and thinks it might be an alternative. Really we need a disambiguation page for the concept; this article should probably be titled "Enneads of Plotinus", as that would provide natural disambiguation. "Enneads (Plotinus)" would also work. P Aculeius (talk) 14:57, 31 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. I note that Enneads already redirects to The Enneads, and has done without issue since 2017, so I can't see how moving the article there could cause any problems that don't already exist. Indeed, from 2002 until 2017 this page was at Enneads before it was moved apparently unilaterally with the (confusing to me) edit summary "LlywelynII moved page Enneads to The Enneads over redirect: title" ([1]). Per WP:SMALLDETAILS, small differences in orthography are sufficient to disambiguate titles if there are hatnotes pointing to the alternatives, and I don't think there's any great danger of people searching for "Enneads" when they mean "The Ennead" (the novel) or "the Ennead" (the group of Egyptian gods) or "Ennead" (the architectural firm) (and in any case, if that's a problem it's been a problem for nearly 20 years and nobody has noticed!) Perhaps there's a case to be made that this page should be at Enneads (Plotinus) (although I suspect that Plotinus' Enneads are the primary topic for "Enneads"), what is currently at Ennead should be at Great Ennead and the page Ennead should be made a disambiguation page with Enneads as a redirect, but that frankly seems like overkill to me. If someone thinks that would be worth doing, they should probably start by creating Ennead (disambiguation) and then create a move request notifying all of the various affected pages, but in the meantime Florificapis' proposal seems to be an improvement over the current situation (and indeed to be how Wikipedia had things organised for most of its history!) Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 12:27, 1 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If you check Wikidata, you can see that every language has "Enneads" instead of "The Enneads," even languages like Spanish and French that use "the" much more often than English. Florificapis (talk) 05:12, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Created a disambiguation page, since one seemed to be wanting—but I don't think that really affects the outcome of this discussion. I still think that "Enneads of Plotinus" would be clearer than either the current or the proposed title. P Aculeius (talk) 15:46, 9 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support The title of the work is Ἐννεάδες not αἱ Ἐννεάδες. Furius (talk) 21:35, 7 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support - to be WP:CONSISTENT with works like the Odyssey and Aeneid, i.e., other Greco-Roman literary works that are traditionally called "the (title)" in English. ModernDayTrilobite (talk) 21:44, 8 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.