Talk:Thanos (Marvel Cinematic Universe)/GA2

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 14:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:14, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mike Christie Thanks again for doing this. I'll probably have to address your latest suggestions tonight. I'm gonna be busier than expected today. -- ZooBlazer^talk 19:25, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No hurry. I certainly won't be able to finish my first pass through till some time tomorrow at the earliest. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:32, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images

Starting with the images:

You have five fair use images; that's a lot. Summarizing what they're used for:
1. File:Josh Brolin as Thanos.jpeg shows the appearance of Brolin's character
2. File:Avengers Infinity War - Josh Brolin as Thanos.jpg is essentially for the same reason
3. File:Thanos in What If...? (TV series).jpg shows the animated character's appearance
4. File:Avengers Infinity War - Josh Brolin as Thanos motion capture.jpg shows a motion capture/character pairing (which incidentally I don't see in the link from the FUR). This is two images, not one.
5. File:Thanos MCU appearance progression.jpg shows the character's appearance varying over three different films. And this is three images, not one, so in all we have eight fair use source images.
I think you can justify one of Brolin's character -- any of them would do. #5 shows a progression of appearance that enhances the reader's understanding, so that seems fair. The animated character is different again, and I think can be justified, particularly since it's not used in the article about the animated series. Motion capture can be demonstrated by a non fair use image (the reader can understand it without seeing Brolin do it). The other variations don't seem to me to have sufficient justification. I would suggest cutting all but #3 and #5, or #3 and #1 or #2.

The other images are appropriately licensed. Will look at the sources next. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:26, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking the review @Mike Christie! I've removed #2 and #4 so far. #1 I think should stay as it's for the infobox and one of the better options from the movies I think. You don't think it's a good idea to keep 1, 3, and 5? I can see the issue with keeping both 1 and 5, but 1 is key for the infobox and I feel like 5 serves a point to show the appearance progression. But if you're set on one going, then I'll remove one of them. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I get where you're coming from, but the infobox doesn't get special consideration as a reason to have a fair use image -- it's more the other way round: whatever is the best fair use image usually ends up in the infobox. I can see #1 is a good infobox image, and I see the reasoning behind #3 and #5, but that leaves #1 with a weak FUR because the others cover "what Thanos looks like", and we have a total of five underlying images being used that way. How about changing #3 to only include the two appearances that are not covered by #1, and keeping #1? That would still use four images, but at least #1 would have two justifications then -- identification and comparison. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, then #3 can't cover any appearances other than animated, which as of now is only What If...? His other appearance in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was just a cameo of his dead body, but it was basically an alternate version of events from Infinity War. -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Are you suggesting dropping #3 and keeping the other two? I think the current problem is that #1 is hard to justify because #5 has an image of the same appearance. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No. Mostly just trying to figure out a way to still have an infobox image, even if it has to be changed from the current one. It's mostly just a preference to have an image in the infobox whenever possible -- ZooBlazer^talk

On a side note, would adding this where #4 was make sense? Or is it still too close to the current images? It focuses on the facial animation as opposed to screenshots from the movies. -- ZooBlazer^talk

I assume that would be fair use? If so I don't think so. I think you have to say "what is it that the reader can only learn from this image?" for each one you want to use, and motion capture can be explained without Josh Brolin's motion capture images. We have free images of Brolin, so that leaves "what do the various iterations of Thanos look like?" I think if you cut the rightmost image from #5, and caption it something like "two earlier version of Thanos", then #1 is absolutely fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:31, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I removed the right image. Are you able to rename the file? I assume it should say (cropped) since it no longer matches the image in the source. -- ZooBlazer^talk 01:53, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have to have the file mover permission to move a file. I'd suggest uploading it again under the revised name and changing the article to point to that. Then we can tag the other version for deletion. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:02, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded a new version and replaced the image in the article. -- ZooBlazer^talk

Sources

Source reliability:

~~What makes adelaidecomicsandbooks.com a reliable source?~~
It's a comic shop in Australia. Figured it was okay as it's an interview conducted by them with Jim Starlin. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't find much about them. Do they have a history of doing interviews? Which maybe get cited by other sources? If it's just a small local shop publishing an interview they did when Starlin was in town it's not a great source. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:45, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, I removed that ref and expanded the section a bit with a couple new refs. -- ZooBlazer^talk 21:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~I don't think we can cite or mention didthanoskill.me unless it's been mentioned by a reliable source.~~
I updated the ref -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:39, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I'll add comments here as I read through. Please feel free to revert any copyedits I make if you disagree with them. I should add that as far as I can recall the only film featuring Thanos that I've seen is the first Guardians of the Galaxy, so you're getting a non-fan's take.

Do we need to say "by motion capture" in the first sentence? I checked a couple of other MCU character articles and there doesn't seem to be a consistent standard, but as someone who's watched a handful of the MCU films and could not really be called a fan it seems a jarring first sentence.
I removed motion capture. This article is supposed to kind of set the standard for the other articles if it manages to pass. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was slightly surprised to see that there's a different article for the comic-book character. What's the delineation between the two? Do they have the same fictional bio? Having just started the article I don't know how much material in it is drawn from the character's long comic history, but how did you decide what to include from that, if anything?
The fictional bio for this article is very different overall from the comic version. The only thing on this article about the comic version is in the background and development section mentioning how the original concept of the character came to be. Everything else has nothing to do with the comic character, other than their name of course. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Thanos is depicted as an alien warlord from the doomed planet Titan with a Malthusian mindset and galactic-spanning genocidal agenda. His primary goal is to obtain the six Infinity Stones, cosmic gems with the power to stabilize the universe's overpopulation and prevent what he views as its inevitable demise." This seems the wrong way round. His primary goal is to kill half the universe's population (as far as I can tell from looking through his biography) because of his belief that otherwise everyone in the universe will die. Obtaining the Infinity Stones is a means, not an end.
Flipped the info around. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I also meant that "with a Malthusian mindset and galactic-spanning genocidal agenda" just prefigures the clearer definition, while being a bit opaque -- he could certainly be called a Malthusian but that's not going to be very informative for most readers. His agenda spans the universe, not just the galaxy, doesn't it? And he's not genocidal, unless I misread the bio; he doesn't want to kill race X; he wants to kill half of all beings, without regard to race or species. The lead's definition of his goal seems not perfectly in sync with the body, too: we have "stabilize the universe's overpopulation and prevent what he views as its inevitable demise" in the lead, versus "eliminate half of the universe's population so that the survivors may thrive" in the body. In the lead he wants stability, in order to save the universe; in the other he wants deaths, in order for the survivors to thrive. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I reworded the beginning of the lede. Is that better? -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, definitely. Personally I'd drop "Malthusian mindset", but this isn't FAC and I think it's arguable, so I've struck the point. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:00, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dropped it. My long term goal is to get this article to FA status, so whatever helps that goal, I'll do. -- ZooBlazer^talk 19:42, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"With the help of his adopted children and after the Infinity War primarily against the Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy, and their allies, Thanos is successful in assembling the Stones within his Infinity Gauntlet and committing the Blip, which disintegrates half of all life in the universe." The phrase "after the Infinity War primarily against the Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy, and their allies" is opaque to me. I take it that the Infinity War is the war between Thanos and his antagonists in which he seeks to gain the Stones? If so, how about "With the help of his adopted children, Thanos fights against the Avengers, the Guardians of the Galaxy, and their allies, in the Infinity War, and succeeds in assembling the Stones. He disintegrates half of all life in the universe, an event that is known as the Blip."
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"He then atomizes the Stones and retires, but is eventually killed by Thor." Atomizes is an odd choice of words. Surely the point is just that he destroys them? And I think "retire" is the wrong verb; it has connotations of him switching from a day job to a pension, which is not what we want.
His exact quote in Avengers: Endgame in regards to what happened to the stones is "Reduced to atoms". So they're not fully destroyed. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there's something sourceable from within the fictional world that says this is not equivalent to destruction (i.e. someone claims those atoms can be recovered and reassembled) I think "reduced to atoms" is about as thorough a destruction as anything ever gets, short of conversion to energy via Einsteinian physics. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looked it up and it looks like Marvel clarified a couple years ago that they were destroyed so I updated that sentence. -- ZooBlazer^talk 21:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Thanos is a key figure in the MCU's Infinity Saga, having appeared in five films, most notably in Avengers: Infinity War (2018) and Avengers: Endgame (2019)." So is the Infinity Saga different from the Infinity War?
Infinity Saga is the first saga of the MCU. It comprises the first 23 movies. Infinity War is both the movie Avengers: Infinity War and the overall battle over the stones in the movie. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK -- could we make it "in the 23 films that make up the MCU's Infinity Saga", then? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk 21:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~The three short paragraphs at the end of the lead are ugly; can they be combined or lengthened? The article is long enough at over 5,000 words to have a bit more in the lead.~~
I combined the first 2 and expanded on the third. -- ZooBlazer^talk 17:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More to come. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:10, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass read-through:

"He then uses the Stones to destroy them": this is hard to say clearly without sounding redundant ("he uses the Stones to destroy the Stones") but I think we can make it a little clearer to readers who don't already know the plot. How about "He then destroys the Stones, using the power of the Stones themselves to do so"? Or we could just make it "He then destroys the Stones", since for plot purposes it's their destruction that matters.
~~"using machine learning through computer algorithms": redundant -- suggest just "using machine learning".~~

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:00, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I went with your first suggestion about the destruction as I feel it's something that'll just be repeatedly added by users in the future anyway.
Removed

-- ZooBlazer^talk 19:39, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fictional character biography

'to realize his "great plan"': the quotes make it seem this is a reference to something specific in the storyline, but there's no further explanation. Should this perhaps just be "to realize his plan"?
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"and embarks on a campaign of conquest and genocide": again I'm checking because I don't know the story, but is "genocide" accurate? For genocide to be the right term, the killings would have to be because of the victims membership of a group, but it doesn't sound like Thanos cares about that at all. Would "mass killing" be better? Or "a campaign of conquest involving the mass killing of entire planets and races", or something like that?
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"He becomes recognized and greatly feared for his power and influence." What does "recognized" add here?~~
Removed -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"In 2018, Thanos is accompanied by his children": not all of them, presumably? We just said two of them have already betrayed him.~~
Fixed -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"in exchange for the retrieval of the Space Stone within the Tesseract": the reader has no idea what the Tesseract is at this point. Should it link to Cosmic Cube?~~
Added wikilink -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"After Heimdall saves Hulk, Thanos kills him": Thanos kills Heimdall or Hulk?~~
Fixed -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"they intercept the Statesman, carrying Asgardian refugees following their world's destruction, and kills half of them": if the children are doing the killing this should be "kill half of them"; if it's just Thanos it should be clearer.
Fixed-- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"their ship is boarded by Eros, brother of Thanos": doesn't this mean that the earlier statement that Thanos "is the only surviving member of the Titan race" is incorrect?~~
Fixed -- ZooBlazer^talk 21:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Can we combine some of the short paragraphs in "Legacy" in the fictional character biography?~~
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk 21:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"fresh on their mind about Thanos": what does this mean?~~
Ended up just removing that part -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~"to prevent forced repatriation": so the reappearing population don't reappear where they were when they died? They have to be moved from one country to another?~~
Cleared things up -- ZooBlazer^talk 06:56, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Now down to "Alternate versions". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 18:38, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass:

"Eventually Thanos learns of the six Infinity Stones and embarks on a mission to collect them in order to use them to fulfill his mission instantaneously.": we just used "embark" earlier in the paragraph, and this also repeats "mission". And I don't think "instantaneously" works where you have it, since the reader doesn't yet understand the Blip. How about "Eventually Thanos learns of the six Infinity Stones and, realizing he could use them to wipe out half the life in the universe in an instant, makes it his mission to collect them."
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"Prior to 2012, he finds the Mind Stone and places it within a scepter." Suggest "The first one he obtains, at some time before 2012, is the Mind Stone, which he places in a scepter".~~
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
"orders his children to retrieve the Mind and Time Stone on Earth": "from Earth" rather than "on Earth", surely? And this would more naturally be "orders his children to retrieve the Mind and Time Stones from Earth", but I can see that screws up the link from Time Stone. How about "orders his children to retrieve the Mind Stone and Time Stone from Earth"?
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk

Alternate versions

I have no idea what these "Alternate versions" are about. Within the 23-film arc, these are storylines that take place in one or more of the films? This is backstory that is referenced but not actually shown in a film? Looking at the citations I see these are to a TV series. Following some links I see these are included under the umbrella of the MCU so that's fine, and looking back at the lead I see there's a reference to the MCU multiverse. If MCU Thanos, as opposed to comic book Thanos appears in some of the TV series, shouldn't that be mentioned in the lead? Currently we only mention What If...? and Multiverse of Madness along with the five MCU films. And perhaps change the lead to say "Several versions of Thanos from alternate realities in the MCU multiverse also appear in Endgame..."? And a sentence above the "Destruction of Earth" section saying something like "Other versions of Thanos are depicted in the alternate realities of the MCU multiverse".
Updated the lede and the section above Destruction of Earth. -- ZooBlazer^talk 21:07, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In the fictional biography, there's a reference to the Avengers "finally undoing his actions five years later in 2023". Is this what the Alternate versions/Battle of Earth sequence is describing? I understand it takes place in an alternate reality, but I think this is the wrong way to present it. As far as a consumer of the MCU is concerned, the Battle of Earth is part of the sequence of events involving Thanos, isn't it? That is, although intellectually they may acknowledge that yes, half the universe died, the story is followed into the alternate reality? Or is the saving of the universe a narrative dead end, and the MCU narrative is going to return to the universe in which half of everyone is dead? If so I guess this presentation does work, though I think the article should answer these questions for me rather than lead me to ask them.
Thanos is killed by Thor soon after the Blip, and then Thanos from 2014 is who the Avengers fight in the Battle of Earth section, which is why he's and alternative one. He's a past version/from a timeline where he's still alive. Those are kind of the same thing in the MCU, as they haven't really distinguished a difference. -- ZooBlazer^talk
I think what's bothering me is that since "Alternate versions" is the same heading level as "Fictional character biography", I assumed the biography was completed, and the alternate versions were other story threads that did not relate directly to the main plotline. Instead it seems to be the case that at least some of the alternate timelines are part of the main fictional character's story. I can see this is a royal pain in the neck to handle in the article, particularly since some of the other alternate realities appear to be truly independent storylines. What if we started the "Fictional character biography" section with a short paragraph saying something like "Thanos's story in the MCU is spread across multiple timelines, and the fictional biography below includes events that happened to Thanos in more than one of these timelines."? Then move the "Battle of Earth" section up to after the "Legacy" section (and could we rename that to "Legacy within the fictional universe"?) and then have a third-level, rather than second-level, section titled "Alternate versions", with "Destruction of Earth", "Joining the Ravagers", and "Other universes" as fourth-level sections, since those are truly independent narratives. Assuming I haven't misunderstood something. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:08, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I made the changes, but also added some info on top of your suggestions. Let me know if it makes sense for you as someone who's not familiar with the entire MCU -- ZooBlazer^talk 20:32, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You have "engages in an intense fight" and "after an intense struggle" in quick succession. A synonym would fix this, but the intensity of the struggle doesn't seem to me to need stressing, so you could probably just cut one or other phrase.
Cleaned up -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"A running gag is that Korath the Pursuer called Thanos by the name of "Captain Genocide"." Without a bit more context this is meaningless to me. Who is Korath, why is this a gag?~~
Removed -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Thanos participates in their mission against the Collector in 2008 where he fights Cull Obsidian and Proxima Midnight, who, in this reality, are no longer at his service after the Collector fills the power vacuum and becomes the kingpin of the intergalactic underworld after Thanos joins the Ravagers" Too long and complicated for one sentence.
Split into 2 sentences. -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Thanos later engages in battle against Cull Obsidian and Proxima Midnight." Didn't we just say that? Or is this another fight? And "engage" is used as a verb in the next sentence: "Thanos engages in a conversation with Okoye about his former plan to kill half of the universe" which is vague in itself -- we know he had this plan, so what does it matter that he talked about it to someone?
Cleaned up -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Ultron then proceeds to take the Stones for himself and sets about to kill all life in the Multiverse": "sets about to" needs to be fixed, but this is wordy anyway -- why not just "Ultron takes the Stones for himself, and sets about killing all life in the Multiverse". And saying it this way leaves the ending dangling -- if Thanos is not involved we don't need any details, but we could say "attempts to kill" or "succeeds in killing" at the cost of just a word or two.
Removed the last sentence as Thanos is dead and not involved -- ZooBlazer^talk
"In a third reality": I know this is the third in this paragraph, but without a context for why these universes should be considered separately from the others in this section there's no reason why this is the third rather than the sixth.
Fixed the wording -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~Is Earth-838 another alternate reality?~~
Yes. It's another universe/reality. Do I need to add more than just the wikilink? -- ZooBlazer^talk
I think it would be helpful to non-aficionados. Maybe "On Earth-838, another alternate reality, Thanos is ..."? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:08, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk 20:38, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Now down to the "Concept and creation" section. Normally with this many questions I'd be considering failing the article by now, but I think fictional character biographies are the hardest thing to write in articles like this and I will give it at least another section. Many of the problems relate to the complexity of the in-universe material, and I would imagine the rest of the article doesn't suffer nearly as much from that. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:25, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I see you've replied to a few points; I think it's better if I try to drive on through the rest of the article, which will give me a better sense of the whole thing, rather than keep going back to look at your replies. I definitely won't be able to finish this tonight; I'll work on it again tomorrow and can probably finish a first pass then. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:20, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Second pass:

~~Presumably "Nevula" is just a typo?~~

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:08, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Fixed -- ZooBlazer^talk 20:37, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Concept and creation

~~"introduced him as a villain in The Invincible Iron Man #55"; shouldn't the link go to Iron Man (comic book)?~~
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"Thanos has often been featured pursuing the female personification of Death": reading the sources, I think "often" should probably go as only two storylines seem to be mentioned.~~
Removed "often" -- ZooBlazer^talk
"enormous superhuman strength, speed, stamina, and invulnerability": suggest "invulnerability and superhuman strength, speed, and stamina" -- "enormous" is redundant if you have "superhuman", and neither applies to "invulnerability".
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
"The MCU began building towards Thanos": is this intended to mean more than "Thanos first appeared in the MCU"? It implies there was a plan to make Thanos a central character, and the 2012 appearance was the first step in that plan. The rest of the paragraph doesn't seem to support any such intention, though, and later we say that when Whedon put Thanos in the 2012 film he didn't know what to do with him.
Reworded -- ZooBlazer^talk
"In May 2014, Josh Brolin signed a multi-film contract to portray the antagonist, debuting in Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)." Does "antagonist" just mean "Thanos" here? Or was the role of Thanos as the main antagonist of a multi-film arc already clear at that point, and that's what Brolin signed up for?
Changed "the antagonist" to Thanos -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"the character needed to be threaded more gently": I don't know what this means.~~
I think I clarified what Whedon was trying to say -- ZooBlazer^talk
That's certainly clearer. I had a look at the source and it's very terse, but that's clearly the meaning. I hate to use so many more words than the source does, though. That sentence starts with "Thanos was originally going to have a larger role", so we don't need to repeat that part of Whedon's point. How about "Thanos was originally going to have a larger role in the film Whedon felt that the character needed to be introduced to the franchise gradually"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
"noted that Thanos' lingering presence in the franchise": see WP:RECEPTION, which warns against using "note" except for unambiguous statements of fact. Here I think this is Markus's and McFeely's opinion. And I don't know what is "lingering" is meant to convey -- it means something that has remained longer than expected. Do you just mean "Thanos' role in Guardians of the Galaxy helped legitimize him..."?
Reworded -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Markus and McFeely had difficulty in factoring the older, post-Infinity War, Thanos into the film due to the character already possessing the Infinity Stones": I think the source for this is "We always had this problem. The guy has the ultimate weapon. He can see it coming. It’s ridiculous. We were just banging our heads for weeks" -- is that right? If so I don't understand what McFeely is saying. What does he mean by "He can see it coming"?
I'm not entirely sure. I think they're just emphasizing that he's powerful with all the Stones, so it's hard to write for a character that powerful. But that's just me guessing. Partly why I didn't add any direct quote and the sentence in the article is mostly about the part where they say they were banging their heads for weeks. -- ZooBlazer^talk
Yeah, it's not very clear. How about focusing on the "ultimate weapon" point they make: "Since at the end of Infinity War Thanos had acquired the enormously powerful Infinity Stones, Markus and McFeely had difficulty deciding how to include him in the plot of Endgame until ..."? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"Archival footage of Thanos killing Loki in Infinity War": why is this called "archival footage"? What would be wrong with just saying "The scene in Infinity War in which Thanos kills Loki"?~~
In the series Loki, Loki he was watching footage of what his life was supposed to look like if he didn't make a new timeline. And he was watching it on a projector which used a film reel. I removed "archival" -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"a scene showing Loki what his future would have looked like": would have looked like if ... what? This is another alternate timeline?~~
Clarified -- ZooBlazer^talk
OK, but shouldn't it be "if he hadn't used the Tesseract" rather than "didn't use"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yep. Fixed. -- ZooBlazer^talk
"A major aspect of Thanos' comic book storyline is his attempts to woo the female manifestation of Death": per above comments it wasn't clear to me that this deserves "major"; am I misreading the sources here? Since I haven't read those comics I may be missing something.
I cleaned it up and slightly expanded on that part -- ZooBlazer^talk
"He also possesses superhuman strength, speed, and stamina": almost a copy of the phrase used earlier. I think giving his abilities here under "Characterization" makes more sense than in the earlier "Background and development" section.
The ones in background and development are for the comic version of the character. Characterization includes abilities in the MCU -- ZooBlazer^talk
Fair enough. Can we make the distinction clearer to the reader by saying something like "Like the original comic book version of the character, Thanos in the MCU franchise possesses ..."? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:34, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I updated the characterization section and included mention of shared abilities between the comic and MCU versions of the character -- ZooBlazer^talk
"which along with his motion capture data from set": does this mean "motion capture data capture while he was acting on set"? If so I think it would be less confusing to shorten it further: "which along with his motion capture data". We get "on set" as part of the quote in the second half of this sentence so I think that would be clear to the reader.
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Advancements in CGI and motion capture technology allowed for the use of more of Brolin's features in Infinity War and Endgame, while also once again changing the shade of purple for Thanos' skin with it becoming more of a lighter purple." As written this says that advancements in the technology changed the shade of Thanos's skin; surely that's not the intended meaning?
Definitely not the intended meaning. Reworded -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Kelly Port, Digital Domain's VFX Supervisor, noted the design of Thanos took into account the versions that appeared in previous films ..." Port is not notable, so can we cut this to "The design of Thanos took into account the versions that appeared in previous films ..."?
Removed mention of Port -- ZooBlazer^talk
"Brolin stated that he based his portrayal of Thanos by taking inspiration from Marlon Brando's performance as Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now (1979), saying in an interview in October 2020; "I mentioned Brando in Apocalypse Now. [Kurtz] who is very elusive and insane but what he is saying makes sense and is poetical". He also added; "I started seeing the parallel which I liked for me. I loved being able to resort to a film like Apocalypse Now when I was doing something like Avengers"." Suggest 'Brolin's portrayal of Thanos was inspired by Marlon Brando's performance as Colonel Kurtz in Apocalypse Now (1979). In an interview in October 2020, Brolin said "[Kurtz] is very elusive and insane but what he is saying makes sense and is poetical ... I started seeing the parallel which I liked for me. I loved being able to resort to a film like Apocalypse Now when I was doing something like Avengers".'
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk

Reception

There's some advice about structuring reception sections in WP:RECEPTION which I think would be helpful here. You have some organization for the paragraphs, which is good; it looks like the first paragraph is positive responses to the character and Brolin; the second is comparisons with other MCU villains; and the third is about Endgame. That seems sensible. However, I think there are too many quotes, and not enough connecting text. The first paragraph also has the "A said B" problem mentioned in WP:RECEPTION -- the other paragraphs have a little of this problem too but are better integrated.

Reception sections are my weakest point when it comes to articles, so I usually let others write them for movies and TV episodes. I tried looking at various GAs to see how their reception sections are written and most of them had a lot of the same issues, which didn't help me. However, I think I made some improvements, but let me know. -- ZooBlazer^talk

Yes, they are hard to write. I tweaked it some; let me know if that looks OK. I have one more question: "The reviewer argued that his lack of history with the Avengers resulted in the nuances and connections being lost, which was most notable in his climatic battle with Maximoff as she still had Vision's death freshly on her mind, but Thanos dismisses her because at that point in his life he hadn't killed Vision." I don't understand the plot elements this is referring to; can you clarify it? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:32, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Is is better now? -- ZooBlazer^talk

Does Starlin's dissatisfaction belong in this section, or even in this article? We don't cover the financial arrangements behind the character anywhere else in the article. I think I'd cut it, but if you want to keep it I think it would be better suited to the "Background and development" section, in which we already talk about Starlin's role.
I ended up just removing it -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~If we going to mention DidThanosKillMe I think we might as well explain that visitors to the website see either "You were spared by Thanos" or "You were slain by Thanos".~~
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"Thanos' name appears on a guest list in The Simpsons short Plusaversary": The only source for this is the show itself; without independent mentions I think this is not worth including.~~
Added a ref from Variety -- ZooBlazer^talk

Merchandise

~~"The toy and merchandise gates burst open": not wrong, but not very encyclopedic language; I'd suggest something blander.~~
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"Pops after the film released": I thought the previous sentence was about Pops that came out after the film's release?~~
Clarified. -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"a set of six chrome figures": each figure was of Thanos?~~
Added Thanos' name -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"and movie moments featuring": I had to click through some links to figure out that this is shorthand for "and Movie Moment Pops" which are Pops that feature characters in scenes from movies.~~
Done -- ZooBlazer^talk
~~"minifig" and "bigfig" are jargon; they're not hard to understand but if there a link to a LEGO page that defines them that would be good.~~
Expanded the words and added wikilinks -- ZooBlazer^talk
"To celebrate the Infinity Saga": I thought the Infinity Saga was just the name for all 23 films? Was Endgame regarded as the end of the Infinity Saga -- i.e. future MCU movies won't be part of the Infinity Saga?
Technically Spider-Man: Far From Home was the end of the Saga, but it's treated more as an epilogue and Endgame is treated as the end. The Multiverse Saga now encompasses everything after the first 23 movies up to now. -- ZooBlazer^talk

That's it for a first read-through. I will go back and start looking at your responses at some point today. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:01, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

Earwig shows no issues. Footnote numbers refer to this version.

FN 34 cites "Thanos made his MCU debut in The Avengers (2012), in which Damion Poitier portrayed the character in an uncredited cameo appearance." I don't see support for "uncredited" in the source; am I missing it?
Updated the source and info about his appearance -- ZooBlazer^talk
FN 42 cites "After the film was released and proved the theory wrong, Christopher Markus revealed that due to the strong nature of the Titans, Ant-Man would have been unable to expand himself and would simply be crushed against the walls of Thanos' rectum." Verified.
FNs 33, 50 & 51 cite "Even when not using the Infinity Stones, Thanos is shown to be a skilled physical fighter, defeating the Hulk in hand to hand combat in Infinity War and wielding a double glaive in combat in Endgame. Like the original comic book version of the character, Thanos in the MCU possesses superhuman strength, speed, and stamina." I don't see "glaive" in any of the three sources; I can see it looks kind of like a glaive, but I think we should stick with what the sources call it.
I changed it to double-sided blade as blade is apparently the term that was decided on. Edit: Just realized it's called a sword in the text at that wikilink, so I'll change it -- ZooBlazer^talk
FNs 31 & 32 cite "Jim Starlin conceived Thanos during a college psychology course and introduced him as a villain in The Invincible Iron Man #55 (February 1973). Thanos was based on the Freudian concept of Thanatos, more commonly referred to as the death drive. Thanatos in Greek mythology was the personification of death and Thanos has been featured pursuing the female personification of Death." Verified.
FNs 64 & 65 cite "He has also been regarded as one of the best villains of the 2010s": verified.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:58, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Since a couple of the spotchecks required minor tweaks I looked at a couple more sources and they were fine. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than delay passing this, I've tweaked the FUR on the modified image, which was the only remaining issue. I would still suggest reuploading it under another name, but that's nothing to do with GA. Passing; congratulations, and thanks for the hard work you've put in on this -- it's a pleasure to work with such a responsive nominator. And FYI I picked this article to review because you had done a couple of reviews; new nominators who are willing to jump in and help with reviewing are a big asset to GA. Best of luck with this at FAC. I will review it again there when I see it, if I have time. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:43, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.