Talk:Teddy Stadium

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File:Portrait Teddy Kollek portrait.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Portrait Teddy Kollek portrait.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012

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This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 20:02, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Jerusalem location

This article needs fixing. The location of this stadium is in Jerusalem, which is claimed by both Israel and Palestine, with none of the claims recognized internationally. If it has a Hebrew translation, it needs an Arabic translation as well. Also, it needs a Sports in Palestine link and the categories have to be "Palestinianized". If this is a WikiProject Israel, we make it a WikiProject Palestine. Please fix. Thank you.Thenabster126 (talk) 04:56, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The claim is irrelevant - this article is not about the city, nor about its status. It is about a stadium, and this stadium is in West Jerusalem, constructed and managed by the Israeli municipality, serves Israeli teams and - to the best of my knowledge - no Palestinian teams. As such, it is not Palestinian in any real sense. Rami R 07:19, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is located in Jerusalem, neither West or East Jerusalem is internationally recognized as being in Israel. To claim it is "in Israel" is therefor a clear npov violation.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 05:38, 18 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That makes no sense at all. Very few countries have specifically either recognized or not recognized this or that part of Jerusalem. The only ones that did at any recent time were those that made statements, or practical changes, to say that Jerusalem is in Israel. For example, Russia[1] and the United States.[2] —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 13:37, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

From your own Times of Israel link: "The rest of the international community adamantly refuses to recognize even this, arguing that the status of the entire city has to be determined in peace negotiations." --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 14:35, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what makes Times of Israel his "own", but you haven't supplied any link to this quote. In fact it comes from a 2017 TOI article, and since that time several countries have recognized Jerusalem - at least this part of Jerusalem - as being part of Israel. Jacob D (talk) 13:46, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Several countries" is still a very small minority. The vast majority do not recognize the claim. Jerusalem including West Jerusalem is still disputed territory. You had no right to remove the tags as you did, the pov claim that West Jerusalem is "in Israel" is still present in the article without any source showing that it is recognized as such by the international community. The tags can only be removed if "Israel" is removed. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 03:13, 2 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A UN map shows west Jerusalem as part of Israel. https://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/israel.pdf

This representation of west Jerusalem as part of Israel, at least "de-facto", is widely recognized.

Your claim that I have "no right to remove the tags" is itself a POV statement.

Jacob D (talk) 12:58, 16 August 2021 (UTC)Jacob D[reply]

Maybe you should have looked at your map before you posted it: "The designations employed and the presentation of material on this map do not imply the expression of any opinion whatsoever on the part of the Secretariat of the United Nations concerning legal status of any country, territory, city or area or of its authorities or concerning the delimitation of its frontiers or boundaries." --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 12:48, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jacob D: per your edit comment at [3], see File:Maliha village boundaries.jpg. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:41, 1 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Onceinawhile: My main point in that edit comment was in reference to Jibril Rajoub's misleading remark in which he described Teddy Stadium as “a stadium built on the ruins of the Palestinian village of al-Malha", which would lead one to believe that the stadium was built on top of actual ruins of the village itself (i.e. homes, buildings, streets, etc.), whereas the 1945 survey map shows that this location was formerly an area of groves and orchards, not a built-up area as implied in Rajoub's remark.

Jacob D (talk) 09:27, 17 August 2021 (UTC)Jacob D[reply]

Understood, thank you. Onceinawhile (talk) 09:59, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

translation into Chinese Wikipedia

The 00:08, 7 December 2017‎ 2601:602:9500:4a8e:e405:6c38:a73d:8df3 version of this article is translated into Chinese Wikipedia.--Wing (talk) 08:33, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmation

@מחסל האגדות: by removing the same image twice, you have crossed 1RR. As you know that is sanctionable. Would you like to self revert?

Re the proof you asked for, you can see it at either see proof at https://palopenmaps.org/view/9999/@31.751167,35.190617 or https://www.govmap.gov.il/?c=218146.86,628726.7&z=5&b=6 by toggling satellite (where you can see the stadium clearly) vs historical maps.

Onceinawhile (talk) 16:27, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He removed it once in 24hrs. Anyway this ancient history is of very little relevance to a modern stadium and matching old maps to modern locations is original research. Not needed here. Free1Soul (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC) sock[reply]

No, he removed the original map twice within a couple of hours.[4][5]

~~Your first link does not show a removal of the map. Please be a bit more careful with false accusations Inf-in MD (talk) 23:45, 7 September 2021 (UTC)~~[reply]

Not correct; here are the two links:

11:09, 4 September 2021: removes the "El Maliha Jerusalem-Compiled.."-map, insert the "Jerusalem-Compiled.."-map

09:25, 4 September 2021: removed the ":El Maliha Jerusalem-Compiled.."-map,

User:Inf-in MD: please stop your false accusations against other users, thank you, Huldra (talk) 21:46, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is one thing debating the map, it is quite another removing the two high quality sources which explain a controversy – as you have just done. It does not have a good look at all. Onceinawhile (talk) 22:38, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The map (which does not mention the stadium) is clearly a case of original research. If you want to add a section about the controversy, start a discussion, but don't use the map to sneak it in. Inf-in MD (talk) 23:43, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the discussion. And noone has provided a reason to exclude mention of the controversy.

As to your claim of original research, what element of locating the coordinates of a place on a map do you consider original research? I am looking forward to your creative answer.

Onceinawhile (talk) 22:48, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~"The only way you can show your edit is not original research is to cite a reliable published source that contains the same material" Inf-in MD (talk) 23:00, 8 September 2021 (UTC)~~[reply]

Inf-in MD, https://www.govmap.gov.il/?c=218146.86,628726.7&z=5&b=6 is the Israeli government mapping website. If you don't consider this to be a reliable source, then please feel free to raise it at WP:RSN. Onceinawhile (talk) 23:07, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm looking at that map, and I don't see Teddy Stadium on there. What part of "The only way you can show your edit is not original research is to cite a reliable published source that contains the same material" is not clear to you? Inf-in MD (talk) 23:10, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@מחסל האגדות: all the opposing comments here came from a blocked sock. I believe I have now addressed your concerns, and those of the sock, with a better and clearer map, and more sources which point out the location and the controversy. Onceinawhile (talk) 21:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]