Talk:Teardrop tattoo

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Only a Worthless Culture Would Play these Kinds of Games This is not a racial comment, as it is obvious that anybody can get one of these. It is a comment on the glorification of violence as something "cool" when it's stupid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.148.70 (talk) 14:43, 18 August 2011 (UTC) The tattoo has been around for decades and usually has a reference to prison. Before all the celebrities started getting them it was a very bad tattoo to have. Depending on the region or prison it meant you were either raped in prison, property of a prisoner(s) as a sex slave or a child molester. It was forcefully applied on the face as a branding so the humiliation could never be covered up and they'd always be a target no matter what prison they went to. When these guys got out of jail they were too ashamed to say what it meant so it was common to say it meant they killed someone while inside, yet it was quite obvious if they didn't serve extra time for the murder it wasn't true. Times have changed and a lot of us older folk see this kids with the tear tattoo and shudder for a moment, to me it brings back memories of disgust, people to avoid. If only the kids knew the true origins and how uncool it is they'd think twice before wilfully branding themselves in this way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.82.40 (talk) 03:40, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Lil Wayne

His tattoo doesn't fit any of the definitions, either remove the picture, or add a definition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.29.187.9 (talk) 22:47, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm really not sure how accurate these definitions are to begin with. There are a lot of claims on this article that need citations. Wgunther (talk) 04:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Lil Wayne's tattoo does fit a definition because he did spend time in prison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.45.93.37 (talk) 04:42, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

He is a (removed BLP violation) it's quite likely he (removed BLP violation) and the meaning of the tattoo.

From the Rolling Stone article:

Last year, in an interview with Blender, he pointed to the four teardrop tattoos on his face — in prison culture, signifiers that you've murdered someone — and said, "Lord, forgive me."

The author is stating what the tattoos 'could' mean. Lil Wayne only replies "Lord forgive me", this could mean he asks forgiveness from the lord after (removed BLP violation) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheFrogPrints (talk • contribs) 06:45, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think so. Here's more of the excerpt:

• Wayne's own gangsta bona fides are difficult to suss out. Last year, in an interview with Blender, he pointed to the four teardrop tattoos on his face - in prison culture, signifiers that you've murdered someone and said, "Lord, forgive me." But when I ask if his mother was ever concerned about him moving in a dangerous direction, he says, "No, I've always been a good kid. You can ask her. She ain't never had to worry about that shit. I always hung with a bad crowd, but she knew I was smarter than all of them."

There's absolutely no reason to believe that the tattoos have any sexual reference in this case.   Will Beback  talk  18:40, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

There is mounting evidence from many sources stating Li'l Wayne (removed BLP violation). He served time in prison so it's likely, with his (removed BLP violation) that his tattoos could indicate he was (removed BLP violation). (removed BLP violation) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.82.40 (talk • contribs) 09:48, 5 June 2012‎ (UTC)

Another meaning could be "each tear drop representing someone who has been killed in his family", according to Genius, source here. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 14:19, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Australian usage

I don't think that the Australian usage can be considered reliable. The source points to a Guardian article that itself uses a blogging site as its source. Blog sites are not WP:RS. The site it ultimately points to is http://www.inkedblog.com/archives/2005/09/break_the_tatto.html. I have therefore removed the reference and the statement until a truly reliable source is added. fr33kman ^-simpleWP- 02:01, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Undertaker

I think the Undertaker should be removed due to the fact he never had a teardrop tattoo. This was merely painted on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.32.210 (talk) 18:40, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Inmates

I wonder what the British band has to do with forcibly tattooing child molesters in australian prisons —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.104.224.32 (talk) 19:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Sources

• [Lil] Wayne's own gangsta bona fides are difficult to suss out. Last year, in an interview with Blender, he pointed to the four teardrop tattoos on his face - in prison culture, signifiers that you've murdered someone and said, "Lord, forgive me."
  • Life on Planet Wayne Binelli, Mark. Rolling Stone 1076 (Apr 16, 2009): 43-47,73-74.
• "You got the brains of a stripper," a sophomore boy was saying to a plump, ponytailed girl (another beneficiary of J.R.O.T.C. food) who was dating an older guy whom nobody liked. Seeing Norberto, the boy changed the subject: "Hey, Norberto, you know how people get the teardrop tattoo on their cheek the first time they kill someone? My friend--I'm serious--he put the name of the guy on his face!"
  • EXPECTATIONS; A REPORTER AT LARGE Boo, Katherine. The New Yorker82. 45 (Jan 15, 2007): 44.
• This tragic story is not unique. That evening, Aishaah recounted a situation that shocked me into silence. She described ayoung man she'd met in prison who had teardrops tattooed on his face. Seventeen of them. Each tattoo brought him honor in his gang; each was a symbol of a life he had taken, a record of another brother he'd gunned down. For every teardrop, for every life taken, on purpose or by mistake, there are hundreds of broken hearts. Love and life are erased in the time it takes to raise a hand, pull a trigger, hit or miss.
  • No More Tears Taylor, Susan L. Essence37. 12 (Apr 2007): 194.
• However, pain and time can actually be linked in what could be perceived as yet another category of prison tattoo: the tattoo which itself is about being in prison: "He is short, compactly put together and there are two teardrops tattooed just under the outer corner of his left eye. Looking at him I think about the legends I have heard: each teardrop stands for a year spent in prison or in some instances, for a person you have killed" (76).
  • Skin and Self-Indictment: Prison Tattoos, Race, and Heroin Addiction McCarron, Kevin. English Studies in Canada, suppl. Special Issue: Skin34. 1 (Mar 2008): 85-102.
• Then one day a gang of Hispanic youths came and stood and watched. "All of them", says Martin, eyes filling at the memory, "had the teardrop tattoos on their faces representing their friends who had been killed. They were in full gang regalia and I thought they could be dangerous."
  • The making of a musical Tyrrel, Rebecca. FT.com (Apr 12, 2008).
• In addition to their relative permanence, tattoos can provide valuable information about the person's personal history and criminal activity. A careful examination may reveal the wearer's rank within an organization, criminal expertise, and, occasionally, the number of murders the individual has committed.9 For example, a teardrop under an eye can indicate that the person has spent time in prison, killed someone, or lost a family or fellow gang member. Sometimes, only the wearer will know the exact meaning of the tattoo.
  • Erasing the Past: Tattoo-Removal Programs for Former Gang Members Poljac, Bakir; Burke, Tod. FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin77. 8 (Aug 2008): 13-18.
• In the tattoo parlors of East Los Angeles there is a double standard in the tattoo choices Chicanas/os make on their bodies. Margot Miffin (1997) says, "Tattoo has always had particular appeal for Latinas . . . who wear the names of their gangs, boyfriends, and children; nicknames; rosaries; crosses and teardrops indicating the number of years they or their boyfriends have spent in jail"
  • The Chicana Canvas: Doing Class, Gender, Race, and Sexuality through Tattooing in East Los Angeles Santos, Xuan. Feminist Formations21. 3 (Fall 2009): 91-120.
• In the book, MS-13 bosses come to life through physical descriptions of menacing-looking, heavily tattooed youths who dedicate all their time to gang affairs and distinguish themselves through their preparedness to kill. Logan's assertion that one leader's tattoos - an 'MS' on the forehead and a teardrop - are 'hard-earned symbols of status and power' (p. 36) is factually incorrect, however. Although the teardrop often denotes a homicide and serves police in identifying suspected murderers, gang tattoos generally mean whatever their bearers want them to mean.
  • This is for the Mara Salvatrucha: Inside the MS-13, America's Most Violent Gang WOLF, SONJA; Logan, Samuel. Journal of Latin American Studies42. 3 (Aug 2010): 627-629.

I didn't see any sources which said the tattoo means the wearer was convicted of child molestation. The sources seem to say that there is no fixed meaning, though it often denotes a murder or a year in prison.   Will Beback  talk  17:52, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I've rewritten much of the article based on these sources. I also removed material based only on blogs.   Will Beback  talk  18:48, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Hollow vs. Filled-in

Can't source it, but growing up in south Phoenix around lots of gang bangers (in the late 80's/early 90's), a hollow teardrop (just the outline) meant the wearer had lost someone precious to them by murder, whereas a filled-in teardrop tattoo meant the wearer had avenged the death of the loved one by killing the killer, or sometimes (especially in the case of females) the teardrop would be filled in if the original killer was dead by any means.

This explanation seems reasonable to me, since simply getting a teardrop for committing any murder doesn't make sense. Why would anyone cry over killing someone they intended to kill? Sure, some may experience regret, but it would seem the exception and not the rule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.131.119.70 (talk) 07:33, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Trying to find a sensible answer to your question: The tattoos could be sarcastic fake tears, intended to mock the family and friends of the dead. But I mainly agree with your conclusion after all. TooManyFingers (talk) 06:54, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Lil Wayne: 4, 3 or 2 teardrops

In the article it says: "Rapper Lil Wayne has four teardrop tattoos." The sources are fairly solid, namely Rolling Stone (April 2009) that refers to a Blender (2008) interview, and both say four, the latter literally quoting him. However, in a video interview, he says he had three and took one off (Oct 2009). Even if he somehow 'forgot' he had four and not three, surely if he took one off he now at most has three of them and not four... --82.136.210.153 (talk) 14:11, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

I have removed the number for now. --82.136.210.153 (talk) 13:22, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

Disputed change

This edit, repeatedly restored with minimal explanation, removes material. Additionally, please discuss disputed changes.

WP:BRD recommends that when you boldly make a change and it is reverted, it is time to discuss the issue. Having ignored BRD, BRBRD, BRBRBRD and BRBRBRBRD, let's see if BRBRBRBRBRD has a chance.

The edit removes -- without explanation -- the sourced distinction between the United States and Mexico, along with the number of tear drops possibly signifying the number of years in prison or the number of prison rapes. The edit summary -- finally added the fourth and fifth times around -- does not explain the removal of this information. - SummerPhD^v2.0 02:54, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I did explain; please see my edit summary for yourself.

If you properly read the article http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/3624-four-days-in-the-oaxaca-state-prison it does not say the number of drops represents the number of times the prisoner is raped. It only states that the tattoo represents the prisoner was raped. Also, the article is from Mexico but it happens in prisons all over the world.

Also; how does a tattoo represent 'the number of years in prison' and which reference cites this?

The meaning section also repeats what is already in the definition; why does this need to be repeated on such a short article? My version has a short description and then in the meaning section all the meanings are explained with references. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.148.82.40 (talk) 03:21, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I have seen for myself. The first, second and third times you added the material, you gave no explanation of any kind. The fourth and fifth time you added the material, your edit summary was "Separated definition and meaning to remove repetition. 'Meaning' section is now concise; meanings are now directly taken from the references. (using passages from the references/Check for yourself)" That summary does not state the you removed material, nor does it explain why. You said you removed "repetition".

I haven't yet checked the refs to see if your claim now is accurate. I'll take a look later. - SummerPhD^v2.0 04:46, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Fair point that the repetition seems awkward for such a short article. I've taken out the section headers so that it's just a three-paragraph article.

I've cut "number of years in prison" as unsourced and unlikely (are people really going to stick with it and have ten or twenty of these teardrops?), and it relating to incarceration alone is unsourced. The number-of-times-raped was sourced to two different sources when the information was repeated - it's possible that the other of these supports it. I've flagged it as needing verification.

The statements that "these people have teardrop tattoos, these people have also been in prison" is something of a wink-wink you-be-the-judge WP:SYNTHESIS, though, and doesn't belong in the article. We'd need a secondary source that commented on any connection between these people's tattoos and their prison experience. --McGeddon (talk) 08:59, 25 July 2015 (UTC)