Talk:Tam o' shanter (cap)

Untitled

I propose moving this to Tam o'shanter (hat) Guinnog 10:48, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Caps and glengarries

Does it not have capital letters? Rich Farmbrough 23:30 28 March 2006 (UTC).

• It probably does. --Guinnog 23:45, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Australian Army

Back in the late 80s A Company (Scottish) 10/27 Bn Royal South Australian Regiment and B Company Scottish 5/6 Bn Royal Victorian Regiment wore tam o'shanters (khaki bonnets). Does this still occur? Ozdaren 15:06, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

=A few errors here

• The appellation 'Tam o Shanter' appears to date from the early 20th century when the khaki bonnet was adopted for Scottish troops on the Western Front, the Glengarry, being by then hard to keep on and offering no protection against the weather, was better suited as barrack and walking out dress.

• The “General Service Cap" had nothing to do with the TOS either in form, structure or material. it was merely another form of the soft crowned, brimless cap (for example, the German ‘mutze’, the Basque beret and indeed the Scottish bonnet) that appeared in Europe during the 16th century.

• The form of the TOS as worn by other ranks, be they of Highland or Lowland regiments, has gone through various forms in the last 20 or 30years: sloping forward; set up almost like a ‘pill box’ cap with the crown cropped to produce a very narrow brim and, latterly, worn sloping to the left like a beret (just as officers' TOS's, made of softer wool, have been worn since at least the Second World War).

• The reason the soldiers of The Black Watch of Canada wear Red Hackles in their bonnets is that it is the distinguishing mark of their parent regiment the Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) and it still worn by them in barracks and with combat dress since their incorporation as 3rd Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Scotland.

• “In many regiments, it is traditional for soldiers to wear a tam o'shanter, while officers (and in some cases senior non-commissioned officers) wear the Balmoral or Glengarry instead.” This looks like nonsense. Until the recent amalgamation of the Scottish regiments, there were specific orders of dress that determined whether the TOS or Regimental headgear, be it Glengarry or in the case of the Black Watch in No. 1 or No. 2 Dress, the Balmoral, were worn. In some forms of barrack dress officers and pipers might wear the Glengarry. However in combat order all ranks would wear the TOS undress bonnet (although Lowland regiments did wear wear their Glengarries on the streets of Ulster if circumstances allowed).JF42 19:26, 29 July 2007 (UTC)JF42

When I have time I shall incorporate these points into an re-edited version of the entry

merge

I suggest merging the Tam (cap) article into the Tam o'shanter (hat) article. They're the same thing, right? --68.0.124.33 (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

• A tam is apparently a rastafarian or academic cap, both of which are different to the traditional Scottish toorie bunnet/Tam o'shanter (hat). Zipzipzip (talk) 22:22, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

origin of the name

does anyone know why the hat is named after the poem? Tinynanorobots (talk) 22:36, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

The ToS bonnet, whether military or civilian. represents the survival of an item of Scottish folk headgear that was once common throughout Europe and worn by the common folk until the mid-19th century when the peaked, tweed 'bunnet' began to be worn instead. The 'toorie' on the crown, a vestige of the original knitting process, is the distinctively Scottish part of the bonnet.

The eponymous character in Burn's narrative poem, Tam o'Shanter ('Tom from Shanter'- a location now apparently lost if it ever existed), was perhaps seen as as a typical representative of the Scots common man: bibulous, appreciative of the female form, superstitious, a spinner of yarns...

How the ToS came to be seen as a suitable name for a child or young girl's bonnet is not clear. Similarly why the name was chosen for the khaki version of the 'Balmoral' bonnet when adopted as service dress bonnet for Scottish soldiers during the First World War, remains to be established. JF42 (talk) 12:31, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Out of date reference

"Today, the Scottish Division..." The section following is out of date despite inclusion of reference to the Royal Regiment of Scotland created in 2006. This paragraph needs to be updated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JF42 (talk • contribs) 19:19, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

General Service Cap

The reference to the General Service cap is inaccurate and not relevant. It should be excised

Academic tams

"Academic traditions" This heading is spurious. A cap with a button and tassel may have come to be known as a 'Tam' but it has little to do with the Scots bonnet and the primarily military association of the name in Scotland. There, a bonnet is a bonnet and 'ToS' is rarely heard in UK outside the military context. 'Tam' in any case is very much a North American abbreviation, and its use here reflects the heavy Canadian/North American bias of the article. This paragraph would be better placed in a link to 'Tams' or 'Academic headgear' if there is such a heading.JF42 (talk) 20:00, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

• And yet the term "tam", whatever its region of usage, appears to derive from the term "tam-o'-shanter and therefore would belong here or in its own article... And I am not at all certain it warrants an entire article. That it is used more in North America than elsewhere doesn't reflect regional bias in this article so much as it reflects an inclusion of regional variation— if the article were mainly about "tams" as a piece of academic headgear then I would agree with you. But I do not think this is the point on which we disagree, and failing the appearance of an article on "tams", there should certainly be at least a single paragraph mention of the term and its usage here in this article. No? KDS4444^Talk 19:11, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Tartan Tam o' Shanters

The tartan headgear shown in the photograph are not really 'Tam o' Shanters' since they are made of triangular segments more appropriate to what are known as 'Baker boy' caps.

The bonnets illustrated are cheap and nasty tourist/joke shop wear and have very little to do with the 'Tam o' Shanter' proper. I'm going to attach a citation needed. A historical image would be more appropriate.JF42 (talk) 19:01, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Tam as academic headgear

An academic tam and a Tam O'Shanter are two different things, right? TuckerResearch (talk) 04:11, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

• An academic tam is a piece if headgear very similar in style to a tam-o'-shanter, and according to the OED the former term derives from the latter. However, an academic tam is, to the best of my research, constructed like a beret with either six or eight point (i.e., two crown pieces sewn together and attached to a headband) rather than as a series of triangular pieces sewn together. Also, academic tams are pretty much all made of velvet, whereas a tam-o'-shanter is traditionally wool. So the answer is, "Yes and no." KDS4444^Talk 19:02, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

'Description'

Has this section been edited or did I miss something?

The reference to "six pie segments" is , frankly, nonsense; as is the assertion that" It also has as a main hallmark the clan tartan woven into its woolen threads."

The Scots bonnet was traditionally knitted of plain wool on a circular pattern and then felted and milled. It is true that the military version known as 'Bonnet, Tam o'shanter' is made of sections of khaki wool cloth to create crown and band. They are not pie-shaped.

Some versions of Scots style headgear, not least the cheap tourist tat in the photo illustrating this page may be made of segments of tartan pattern cloth. If that is the writer's source their eligibility for writing this article is questionable

The article overall is poor and this section certainly needs to be re-written. JF42 (talk) 12:57, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

I have ammended erronious or misleading statements in the early sections, 'Description' & 'Military Use' relating to points mentioned above.JF42 (talk) 13:40, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Merging

I propose that this article merge with the Balmoral Bonnet. I think that both articles are describing what is functionally the same item of clothing. And in fact some sections like the "Others" section here is the same to a section in that article. It is unclear what difference exists between these two items and the term "Balmoral Bonnet" seems to be used interchangeably with "Tam o' Shanter" in this article.Jtrrs0 (talk) 23:27, 28 May 2016 (UTC)