Talk:Taiwanese nationalism

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This article should be deleted. It is simply a small subset of "Taiwanese independence" and the content should be merged and a redirect should be added. The intersect between those that support Taiwanese nationalism and those that do not support Taiwanese independence is a big fat NULL.

Let me also point out that to the average person, meaning people that are participants in the democratic process in Taiwan and in Taiwanese independence, nationalism and independence are indistinguishable. That is, many of them think they should just speak Taiwanese and Taiwan should promote it's own culture as part of Taiwanese independence. It's not logical, but they believe an independent Taiwan and a nationalist Taiwanese identity are the same thing. Think about American culture right after the Revolutionary War and how Americans thus now drive on the right side of the road and not the left. [unsigned]

I don't really see how taiwanese nationalism is different from taiwanese independence and especially localization efforts. BlueShirts 21:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

We should say, especially because of localization efforts, which are supported by all major political parties, even those opposed to independence. Taiwanese nationalism is the promotion of Taiwan as a nation, while Taiwanese independence is the promotion of Taiwan as a state. You can have a Taiwanese nation (such as by promoting a Taiwanese culture that is separate from Chinese culture) but no independent Republic of Taiwan, just like there is a Tibetan nationality, but no independent Tibet. We can perhaps say that the Democratic Progressive Party, in playing identity politics, favors a Taiwanese nation, but is not promoting Taiwanese independence through the Five Noes.--Jiang 22:33, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's more complicated than it should be. Most people cannot tell the difference between state and nation (as in 56 prc nations). By your definition, Taiwanese nationalism is comparable to Taiwanese localization, that both of them exclusively promote a Taiwanese cultural identity, while Taiwanese independence promotes a separate state. So I think it's best to redirect Taiwanese nationalism to Taiwanese localization, if that's what you mean by nationalism. However, I think in common usage Taiwanese nationalism is pretty much equal to Taiwanese independence, or just supplant the ROC with ROT, with no independence involved. BlueShirts 22:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

take a look at how the term is being used in chinese: [1]. --Jiang 04:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

cultural nationalism? BlueShirts 19:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or delete

Some people suggested deleting this article. I think that another possible option is to merge it into Taiwan independence or Taiwanese localization movement. - Alanmak 21:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwan is nationalistic and nationalism feelings does exist, quite strongly.--Certified.Gangsta 05:27, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious information

Since the government of Taiwan, Republic of China, is no longer recognized as the government of China since 1971, the movement's supporters believe it is necessary to establish and reinforce a separate Taiwanese identity and use the correct demonym (i.e. "Taiwanese") to identify Republic of China (aka "Taiwan Area") citizens and not confuse them with the "Chinese", a term they see as only applying to the residents of People's Republic of China (Communist or mainland China).

I yanked the text above from the article for several reasons. First, the wording of "Taiwan, Republic of China" is confusing - it sounds like an address rather than a clarification. Second, the ROC is still recognized as the government of China by a few countries so saying it is no longer recognized as such is not entirely true. Third, I don't believe it is correct to say that the reason for Taiwanese nationalism is the derecognition of the ROC as the government of China. I think the origin is earlier than that and the reasons are differnt. I don't have a source for that, but we also don't have a source saying that Taiwanese nationalism is a result of the derecognition of the ROC. Also I find the assertion that Taiwanese nationalism is focussed on the "Taiwan Area" as opposed to areas that have traditionally been associated with Taiwan (Penghu but not Kinmen? Perhaps not even Penghu?) dubious, and that assertion is also uncited. Finally the assertion that "Chinese" is to be reserved for the PRC or mainland China is also questionable and confusing. Is it the PRC (including HK) or mainland China (not necessarily including HK). Do Taiwanese nationalists not consider HK Chinese? Do we know that Taiwanese nationalists object to people like Lee Kwan Yew of Singapore being called Chinese? Do all Taiwanese nationalists feel the same way about the KMT immigrants or do some consider them to be Taiwanese and some consider them to be foreigners? There is a lot to question there and no reliable sources are provided to back up the statements. UPDATE: forgot to sign. Readin (talk) 02:13, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Result: Merged. Ythlev (talk) 20:55, 11 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I propose to merge Taiwanization into this article, as there is a large overlap. Ythlev (talk) 15:44, 18 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The merger was proposed the carried out by the same user. I would like to argue that Taiwanization (or Taiwanese localization) is a related be different concept from Taiwanese nationalism. While Taiwanization may be inspired by nationalism, it more describes grassroots, cultural or governmental initiatives - whereas Taiwanese nationalism is an idea. Butterdiplomat (talk) 20:07, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ROC calendar

How is replacing the ROC calendar with the Gregorian calendar "desinicization"? The PRC uses the Gregorian calendar as well. 2A04:4A43:8ABF:F80F:9084:7D2E:DEFD:3C10 (talk) 10:53, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]