Talk:Tố Hữu

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Etymology of Tố Hữu

What is the etymology of "Tố Hữu"? Badagnani 00:09, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's my take on the name (please don't take this seriously, it's meant to be a joke): 愬友. DHN 00:27, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Informs on his friends"? :) Badagnani 00:36, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Accuse. DHN 00:40, 13 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, it sounds funny, "Tố" means element, distinct part of a whole (nguyên tố, thành tố, yếu tố ...), "Hữu" means have, contain, exist, "Tố Hữu" means something that belongs to one's nature, implies: uprightness, will, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.70.244.41 (talk) 03:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If this is accurate, it should be added to the article. Do you know the Han Tu? Badagnani (talk) 03:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, i don't know how to write the Han Tu :(, but "Tố" and "Hữu" are very common in Sino-Vietnamese words. Vinataba (talk) 03:39, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It shouldn't be hard to find at the Nom Foundation's website if you're certain that these are the original Han Tu meanings. Badagnani (talk) 03:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I think this is the second one: 有 / Vietnamese Wiktionary: 有. Badagnani (talk) 04:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The definition you list for the first character is not showing up at the Vietnamese Wiktionary article. Can you find it? Badagnani (talk) 04:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The fist character is 素 here [1] and here [2] Vinataba (talk) 04:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You're sure? Does this website help? Badagnani (talk) 05:04, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

素 can have several other meanings as well (as a vegetarian, I'm very familiar with that meaning). Badagnani (talk) 05:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm null at Chinese and literature, but when he was young, in one of his poems, he said:

“

Chí ta như núi Thiên Thai ấy

Đỏ rực chiều hôm dậy cánh đồng
Lòng ta như nước Hương Giang ấy
Xanh biếc lòng sông những bóng thông

”

roughly translated as:

“

My will is like the Thiên Thai mountain

Blazing red in the afternoon with the field.
My heart is like the Perfume River's water
Blue with the shadow of the pines ...

”

That may give a clue to his name, sorry for my terrible English :( Vinataba (talk) 05:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's great! Do we need an article about the Thiên Thai mountain? How is it called in Vietnamese and English? Badagnani (talk) 05:50, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I will do a title research, but AFAIK it's rather a symbol, a mountain in paradise, than a real mountain, since Thiên Thai appears in many fairy tales. Thiên mean sky, heaven, god, Thai means towers, platform (?) in Sino-Vietnamese. Perhaps, there is already an article about Thiên Thai mountain in Chinese Wiki. Nevertheless, i know a mountain in Bac Ninh called Thiên Thai, in a famous folklore song Quan họ "Trèo lên trái núi Thiên Thai" - "Climbing the Thien Thai mountain" Vinataba (talk) 06:13, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to the article in Vietnam Wiki [3] there are two mountains, one in China, one in Vietnam called Thien Thai. Vinataba (talk) 06:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So Thiên comes from 天 (tiān), that's easy. What is Thai? Badagnani (talk) 06:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, Thai is 台 (tai). Badagnani (talk) 06:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, in English, the mountain in China is called Tiantai Vinataba (talk) 06:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I'm concerned, the Chinese "etymology" and characters in his pen name is bunk. I'm going to remove it if no concrete evidence other than hearsay and conjecture is provided within 24 hours. I can say that it means "accuse on friends" and no one will be able to contradict me. DHN (talk) 07:18, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Print source needed

Need to get the meaning of his name, which can probably be found in a book (written in Sino-Vietnamese characters) that comprises his hagiography. Badagnani (talk) 07:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See Google search 1. Badagnani (talk) 08:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google search 2. Badagnani (talk) 08:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like the "old friend" meaning wins. And it's an actual word in Chinese! DHN (talk) 09:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The first character can have at least 6 different meanings, so I'm not sure which is correct. The other thing is that sometimes Chinese use an ad hoc version of the characters for Vietnamese names (even Sino-Vietnamese ones), if they can't figure out what the characters were supposed to be. It seems that this guy was so famous that the meaning of his name should be better known. Badagnani (talk) 09:23, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Opinion and style of Tố Hữu

Sholokhov Opinion and style in creating is very important for an artist. May be we should show Tố Hữu's ones for people in order they can understand more of him. —Preceding comment was added at 07:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

This is English Wikipedia, so a very long text in Vietnamese isn't good to include, especially without an English translation. Badagnani (talk) 07:12, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sholokhov Thanks for Badagnani ideas. But I think this long Vietnamese text is neccesary. I strictly agree with you that this thing needs English translation, but I'm very bad at English. Please help me. And, again, thanks very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.212.255.111 (talk) 16:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Works

Most of his work deal with the communist party, the communist world, and important communist figures. One poem, "Đời đời nhớ Ông" [Forever commemorating you], piteously bemoaning the death of Joseph Stalin ("Stalin! Stalin!/How I love you! When I was learning to speak/my first word was Stalin", "Yesterday I heard the loudspeakers in the fields/The [news from the] loudspeaker tore my guts tremendously", "Love of father, mother, husband/and self is only one, while my love for you is ten") is rarely reprinted in Vietnam today. DHN (talk) 17:08, 24 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

At that time (1953), he only knew that Stalin was a hero who liberated many contries from the Nazi. He was totally naive. Up to now, many of his poetries have been admired by many people in Vietnam and considered the masterpieces of Lục_bát form. Saying "Most of his work deal with the communist party, the communist world, and important communist figures" is such an lie, infact, they are considered something like Socialist realism. Shame on the losers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xcanbiet (talk • contribs) 23:11, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are you saying that socialist realism is not communistic? Can you name one of his work that has nothing to do with socialist life? DHN (talk) 01:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Socialist realism is not only about "the communist party, the communist world, and important communist figures" but (and more important part) about the life of normal people: workers, farmers, soldiers, etc. There is nothing wrong with the authors whose works are socialist realism, quite a few of their works have real value and have still been appicitated today. It is ridiculous and shameful that some people always cite the only small-and-naive poem of To Huu just to lower the value of the whole work of him. For instance, it's easy to name some of the famous poems by To Huu which just talk about the life of normal people, if you were a secondary student in Vietnam, you must already know: Trên dòng Hương giang (about the prostitutes on the boats on the Hương River), Tiếng chổi tre (about the night street sweepers).Don't be like a parrot, repeating the words of some losers who infact never read a single line of To Huu. Happy reading!Xcanbiet (talk) 16:06, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]