Talk:Syrian towns and villages depopulated in the Arab–Israeli conflict

Another source

Here is an academic article that is in Hebrew. If anyone can manage to get it, please let us know.

Kipnis, Yigal. The profile of settlement in the Syrian Golan Heights prior to the Six-Day War.

Cathedra: For the History of Eretz Israel & Its Yishuv 2005 (116): 117-146 30p. (Hebrew title of journal: קתדרה בתולדות ארץ־ישראל ויישובה) Abstract: "Permanent settlement in the Golan in modern times began in 1878. In an area comprising ca. 1,710 square kilometers, by the 1960's there was a population of about 150,000, one city, and 272 villages (19 being seasonal agricultural farms). From 1965 the entire region was administered as one province - Quneitra - divided into two districts and four subdistricts. Settlement began on the initiative of the authorities, who brought in Circassians to establish Quneitra and eight other villages. Further settlement was spontaneous and continued until the 1960's, with other ethnic groups such as Turkmen, Bedouins, Druze, and even Jews establishing permanent settlements. It was only natural that clearly delineated ethnic blocs emerged. The physical structure of the villages was haphazard, and the absence of regional planning led to increased numbers of settlements lacking a basic infrastructure of roads, water supply, electricity, sewage, and communications. The land was not prepared for modern agricultural methods, and health and social services were lacking. The Golan's population was almost completely Sunni Muslims, about 80% of them being Arabs. The settlers found their livelihood primarily in agriculture, in most cases within an autarkic economic framework. Golan society was characterized by poverty, isolation, and conservatism and shunned the winds of cultural and technological change." Zero^talk 13:41, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

This has now appeared in English as a part of Kipnis' book "The Golan Heights", published by Routledge in 2013. I'll be editing... Zero^talk 13:22, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Zero0000 (talk · contribs). Do you have access to Kipnis? I made a list of the villages he names in the Heb version of the article, but rather reference the English version. Can you send the article or the map? trespassers william (talk) 13:04, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

If you send me email, I'll get the book to you. Zero^talk 15:17, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Deir Raheb - Ein Samsam

A village by this name appears here. It is not on the Wiki list, and Google has no other hits.

Ein Samsam is also spelled 'En Samsam. A Byzantine-period synagogue lintel from Ein Samsam is often mentioned and seems to be on display in the Katzrin museum. Brill posted two pictures online (the URLs are endless), the relief shows Daniel in the lions' den (2 eagles flanking two lions, flanking a human; the left end of the basalt beam carved as a lion's head). There are red links for Ein Samsam in various Wiki articles.

Does anyone know the location? Who used which name? Deir Raheb is definitely Arabic, but Ein Samsam might also be Hebrew. Arminden (talk) 00:36, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

@Arminden: 1917 map has Deir el Rahib north of Kisrin, sitting at the same place as Ain Semsem on a 1940s French 1:50K map at 216/270. Close by and much more documented is 'En Nashut (2153/2687) where the synagogue was found. Deir Rahib appears earlier in Schumacher's map of the Golan at the same place. Kipnis is reliable on 1960s population. Zero^talk 02:33, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Zero0000, thanks, for my own curiosity this is perfectly sufficient. Now, can you add it to the list? Or is a map not an acceptable source all by itself? Arminden (talk) 02:48, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

I added it. The map is not the source. Kipnis is the source because he gives population, which is required to verify that it wasn't just a ruin. A future project would be to add the grid references for all of the table, in which case survey maps will be the most reliable sources. Now I also see Ain Semsem on 1:25K maps made by the British army during WWII. Zero^talk 04:16, 9 October 2021 (UTC)

Syrian pre-67 Golan: no such art., why not expand this one?

I am in no way interested in reopening the discussion about the title of the article, but this article is basically about the Syrian pre-67 Golan, since all but four of its 150+ towns and villages (not counting the isolated farms and military bases) were depopulated in one way or another. So the two categories coincide, apart from the 4 northern Druze villages. We don't have any other article dealing with Syrian pre-67 Golan (see also next discussion here-below), so this article would be an excellent start for that, combined into one or not. Otherwise we're left with an empty map and empty shell of words, in no way filled with life by the abstract list of unlinked names we have here, and the strictly conflict-related sections on the Golan Heights page, namely "French and British mandates" and "Border incidents after 1948".

Btw, I think it would be a gain to add to the list two related categories, probably overlapping: the villages evacuated by the Syrian army before 67 for military reasons, a topic already raised on this talk-page, and the military bases, which held a large number of soldiers and probably numerous auxiliary and civilian personnel. They were as much part of the Golan population as the farming communities, with housing units and a whole economy centered on their needs. Arminden (talk) 13:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not aware of villages evacuated before 1967. It's not impossible. Above on this page, Chesdovi cited "In addition to the villages evacuated or where the residents were expelled in the West Bank during the Six-Day War, over 100,000 Golan Heights residents were evacuated from about 25 villages whether on orders of the Syrian government or through fear of an attack by the Israeli Defense Forces and forced expulsion after the cease fire." to UN A/8089 of October 5, 1970. The link is dead, but arXiv has it and I also found it at UN Doc (just put A/8089 in the symbol field). I searched for 10 minutes without finding this sentence, can you? Even if it is in some other document, it expresses ignorance of the reason for the exodus so it doesn't help. A/8089 actually says this (para 75): "The Special Committee has heard considerable evidence of deportations, ranging from the ejection of whole village populations in the Golan Heights to the expulsion of individuals for alleged acts which the occupying Power considered to be contrary to its interests or its convenience. In the Golan Heights, at various periods immediately after the cease-fire, the Israeli authorities ejected a number of persons forcibly from the villages. ... A substantial number of the inhabitants of the Golan Heights, particularly those from Quneitra (which is the largest town in the area), had fled before the Israeli troops entered the area, and of those who remained behind, the majority were forced to leave." Zero^talk 14:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi Zero, and thank you. I am fighting my Wiki-urge like an addiction, usually I end up here because of old question marks rising in my mind after hearing statements I didn't fully accept as proven. I just know this has been claimed in Israel, and it makes sense to a point, as in military provinces at any time in history the dislocation of civilian settlements from exposed areas and their replacement with army camps is something quite common. I have no idea if this did indeed happen in pre-67 Golan, and sorry, but I only intended to raise the issue, not to spend much time researching it. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 15:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Spelling, identification

Spelling of village names differs from period to period, from context to context, making identification and cross-reference (Wiki links) impossible. Who knows a good source listing the various spellings, or whatever other way of solving this problem?

Example: during the Six-Day War, the village of "Sir al-Dib", with a fortification named as "Qala", was a key Syrian position. The article contains no such place, the closest being a phonologically quite remote "Sir Dha'ib".

Note that former French Mandate areas tend to use different transliteration rules from former British Mandate areas, such as al- instead of phonetically adapted ad/adh/ar/as/at/az-. Didn't check on ei/ey vs. ay in the middle of words, and the ending -iyeh vs -ia/ya/iya. Understanding all the (probably French-influenced) spelling tendencies in Syria and Lebanon can help a lot with the identification of sites. So would following up suggestion presented here under "Village locater". @Zero0000: hi, this might be a field you're interested in? As of now, pre-67 Syrian Golan is a terra incognita at enWiki. As only 4 Druze villages remain of the 150+ inhabited Syrian pre-67 sites, this article is almost equivalent to a list of pre-67 inhabited sites in the 2/3 of the Golan Syria lost in that war; adding the 4 somewhere isn't difficult. This would create a tool for all the related articles re. 67 and 73 wars and all else.

Possible/probable equivalents, Syrian vs. Six-Day-War-context (Israeli?) spelling:

• Darbashiyah = Darbashiya
• Jlaybina = Jalabina
• Mansoura = Mansura
• Sir Dha'ib = Sir al-Dib (?)
• Tel 'Azzaziat = Tel Azaziat
• Tel Fakhr = Tel Faher
• Wasit = Wasit
• Za‘urah = Za'ura

Pls expand. Thanks, Arminden (talk) 09:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Too hard for the limited time I have available at the moment. Name lists have to be correlated with maps. There are very detailed maps up to 1948 but I only know some from the 1960s for the west fringe of the Golan. Zero^talk 12:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Zero. I know, and I won't be able either, but there are some very active people dealing with the Golan, we both know at least one who's well represented on this page as well. If you could ping them and indicate a couple of maps from different periods, they'd probably be willing to do the work. As of now, we have a big empty Golan, and a useless disconnected abstract list, not linked in any way to each other, and that doesn't serve their purpose at all. Arminden (talk) 12:54, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Tawfiq in the south is not listed

It shows up on a few pages, red link: Tawfiq, Syria, not far from Al-Hamma, Tiberias/Hamat Gader and probably Tel Katzir. Does anyone have a clue? Arminden (talk) 21:57, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

@Arminden: This is undoubtedly Tawafiq/Tawafik. I see references to Khirbet Tawafik about 1km east of Tel Katzir in the DMZ. Grid 2094/2342. During the 1948–1967 period, Israel expelled the inhabitants over the armistice line into Syria, where they reestablished Tawafik, sometimes called Upper Tawafik. This was presumably destroyed in the 1967 war as it no longer exists. Some of the history is in the book of Kipnis. There is also mention of Arab Tawafik which is presumably a bedouin tribe. Zero^talk 02:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Zero. Let's see now who feels like adding it to the list :)

The main job to be done here still is an article on the Syrian Golan, with a map containing villages, military bases and whatever else feels relevant. Wonder who will have the energy. A Syrian Huldra, I guess.

Happy New Year! Arminden (talk) 09:15, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Must be this one: https://www.mindat.org/feature-168371.html

The mention there of a Khan al Ahmar, 'Red Inn', along with Tawafiq made me curious. It might have been a caravanserai on one of the routes up the Heights and on to Damascus and the Hauran, but I wonder if and when, because just some 8km up the road there was an Ayyubid khan at Fiq. Btw, the roads themselves deserve articles - see quite advanced art. on Fiq and the mentions there on the Aphek Ascent/'Aqabat Fiq. Also related: Aphek. Arminden (talk) 10:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that's it. Have a nice 2024. Zero^talk 11:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)