Talk:Symphony Six

Symphony Six has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: January 2, 2015. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Symphony Six appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 August 2014 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in 1951 the Symphony Six – six Canadian musicians including Dirk Keetbaas, William Kuinka, and Ruth Budd – were denied access to the United States under suspicion of leftist activities?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2014/August.

Wikipedia

Canada: Music Low‑importance

	Canada portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Canadian music.

Classical music

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Symphony Six/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 18:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This has been in the GA queue for almost half a year, so it really is high time somebody reviewed it. It's an interesting article that from a superficial look seems to be very well written and researched.

Lead

I'm not sure the term "leftist" is suitable for a GA, it could be interpreted as being disparaging. Perhaps saying "being involved in left-wing politics" would be better, but even then, I can't help thinking even that is just a euphemism for "being involved in communism", which is a far more obvious reason to deny someone access to the US in 1951.
- Done Let's go with communist. Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While I can see the event was widely publicised at the time, have there been any retrospective views, most obviously anything post cold-war that would re-evaluate the situation?
Comments on the body will follow. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, thanks for starting the review. As a co-creator of the page, I will try to answer your questions. I changed the lead per your suggestion. I'm not sure if we can find any retrospective views that aren't already sourced in the article; the incident of the Symphony Six is recorded in books or mentioned in "50th anniversary reviews" as a historical occurrence. Yoninah (talk) 18:44, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine - if sources don't exist we can't use them. I just thought it was worth bringing it up. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Background

"In 1951-52 it received only CA$56,000 in donations and grants" - do we know what a typical figure for donations and grants was at this time? A comparison of figures might be stronger than saying "only"
- Done Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"a few of them even left the orchestra to work for the CBC" - I think "even" is redundant here. I'm also unsure about the wikilink to Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, presumably the musicians were leaving to join the CBC Orchestra, not the television station itself. If that's the case, I'd take the wikilink out - "CBC" by itself is okay
- Done Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Event

The caption on the image of the Detroit Masonic Temple should be expanded to explain the picture's relevance to the article (ie: it's the venue the Symphony Six were supposed to be playing at)
- Done Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"The six musicians had ostensibly" - rather than "ostensibly", I think it would be better to attribute the allegations to a specific body. ie: "The US government reported that the six musicians had etc" This would then lead to "but denied the charges of political involvement" changing to "but the musicians denied the charges of political involvement"
- I reworded it as a statement, not as an attribution. I searched a lot but couldn't find a statement from the US immigration department. Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Keetbaas could not recall any association with left-wing groups" - I can't find this claim in the source given
- Source: "Dirk said he had never been connected with any organization whatsoever," Budd added. Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"the six musicians resumed their positions with it" - I think "with it" is redundant here
- Done Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Refusal to renew contracts

"Many people wrote letters to the orchestra and some subscribers" - not sure what "subscribers" means in this context
- Orchestras sell subscriptions for the season and for concert series, much like baseball teams sell season tickets. I added a link for subscriptions and removed the word "subscribers". Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The paragraph relating to the United Church of Canada and might flow better if merged with another one
- Done Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"His [Sir Ernest MacMillan] correspondence, however, indicates that he supported the board's decision not to rehire the six musicians" - this sounds like an interpretation by a third party. I think would be better to qualify exactly who said this (ie: Toronto Symphony historian Richard S. Warren)
- Done Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Orchestra members publicly shunned them" - however, in the source given, Ruth Budd said "a few players were genuinely supportive". That would be worth adding to address the balance and ensure we're reporting from a neutral POV.
- Done Good point. Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aftermath

The Canadian Encyclopedia source retrospectively called the event a "witch hunt". I wonder if that's worth adding to the article as a soundbite?
- Everyone knows McCarthyism was a witch hunt. I added, instead, a quote from Ruth Budd in a quote box. Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Summary

I've read through the article now. It is well written, properly sourced and covers the event in good detail. There is very little preventing it from meeting the GA criteria as it stands. Most of my comments are more discussion points than anything else. I'll put the review on hold now pending resolution of the above issues. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:53, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you. I also put in the abbreviation, TSO, as calling it the Toronto Symphony Orchestra over and over was getting unwieldy. Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the quick response. All the issues look resolved, so I can now pass the review. Well done. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 09:38, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Yoninah (talk) 09:55, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]