Talk:Super Metroid/Archive 1

Archive 1

Initial comment

What is this, a story you've written? If it's an article refering to something, please explain what and link to whatever's relevent. Wondering simply, Ifrog

The text that was erased seems to be the plot summary of the actual game.

Article extension

I have plans for how I'd like to extend this article (or see it extended :). If anyone is interested in contributing, please contact me. - Fredrik J

The wrecked ship

The wrecked ship A long time ago cosmonauts belonging to an ancient civilisation crashed on Zebes. This is what remains of their spaceship.

This is not true. The Wrecked Ship is what remains of the pirate ship you blow up at the end of Metroid: Zero Mission. Note the graphics similaries and especially the room leading to the ship from Crateria. Similarly, lower Norfair in Super Metroid is Chozodia before you blow it up (it sinks into Norfair from the explosion). --Myria 19:15, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

So change it. Be bold! Andre (talk) 19:38, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

Actually the Super Metroid storyline is inconsequent with the one in Metroid: Zero Mission. To quote the Super Metroid manual: 'Long ago, astronauts from an ancient civilization crashe (sic) landed on Zebes. This is what remains of their ship.' [1] --Masken 17:27, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Super Metroid was made before Metroid: Zero Mission, almost 10 years ago, making the crashed ship in Super Metroid a probably a different ship from the one in Zero Mission. The ship in Zero Mission wasn't even thought of back then. EisenKnoechel

We can include the inconsistency, though. Andre (talk) 17:53, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

We should mention this but I think it's best to clearly state things presented in MZM as being things from MZM. Fredrik | talk 18:25, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

We also should take into account that durring the first attempt to take the metroids back from the Space Pirates, the Federation had lost numerous ships in a siege attempt. The ship might be one of the Federation ships destroyed in their siege. I agree that we should mention the Zero Mission ship in the article, but we should mention all possible designations of what the ship might be. EisenKnoechel

The ship from Metroid Zero Mission was a retcon to explain why there's a ruined ship. - Shingen

I agree with Shingen that it was most likely retconned by Zero Mission, as Zero Mission already retcons elements of the original Metroid. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 16:41, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Since there is no official Nintendo source on how Zero Mission's geography correlates to Super Metroid, we can't state any of the above explanations as fact. We can mention the theories and link to something like this for a reference. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 04:54, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yoshio Sakamoto has dismissed the Wrecked Ship/Pirate Ship theory as false on the Q&A section of the Japanese Zero Mission site. See Metroid: Zero Mission and the reference at the bottom for more details, and the talk page for Japanese-to-English translation from another user. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 09:39, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Pseudo Screw Attack/Charge Attack and Bomb Spread/Five-Bomb Drop

Pseudo Screw Attack/Charge Attack and Bomb Spread/Five-Bomb Drop The latter names are used by the official player's guide. The other names are what people keep changing them back to unexplainedly. Shall I change them back or forget about it? No use having an edit war over something that insignificant. QuasarTE

I recognize the other names over the official ones. Keep those. Autodeist 20:47, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I say use the official names, and note the fan usage. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 16:39, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Charge Attack" is also the term used in the Metroid: Zero Mission manual and item description screen. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 09:39, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Adam malkovich

i would like to point out that since adam is in no way mentioned during the game, the body could not possibly be him. He should have been ordering her around all game. Playwrite 14:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Finale section

This portion of the plot needs to be rewritten. The text before this section gives a neutral description of how the player might progress through the game, while the Finale section breaks into narrative prose, as if the author is trying to adapt the game into a novel. This is inaccurate, considering that the story of Super Metroid is almost entirely told by the player's actions. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 05:00, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I authored this portion of the story overview and actually your accusation of narrative prose is pretty accurate. I sent it to Fredrik for review and he removed some portions and revised it significantly from my original draft to make it sound less like fan fiction. I'm not opposed to some retooling, but I would appreciate it if whomever does such a thing at least retains some of my material, and replaces it with something of equal quality. If I look here sometime and find some two-sentence description with bad grammar and spelling, I'll probably revert it :) I don't really feel like rewriting it myself, since I am, of course, personally pleased with it.--QuasarTE 10:05, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Items

It says here that the Hyper Beam is about as powerful as a Super Missile. While it may be that the plain damage of the Hyper Beam is about the same as the Super Missile, it is clearly intended by the game to be much more powerful: Super Missiles don't scratch the mother brain, and the hyper beam defeats many bosses in one shot (perhaps because it penetrates and hits many times). It also destroys shutters that the Super Missiles have no effect on. I'll change it to say that the Hyper Beam is wastly more powerful than even a Super Missile if no one protests. Amaurea 04:40, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

I've re-written the description to avoid the Super Missile comparison entirely. --Poiuyt Man ^talk 09:33, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Does this page really belong in an encylopedia?

I don't think so... —the preceding unsigned comment is by 209.23.236.67 (talk • contribs)

I think it does, but the writing style should be made more encyclopedic (I'm afraid I don't think I am good enough at writing to do that myself). What makes you think this article doesn't belong in an encyclopedia? Don't you think that Super Metroid is a notable game, or do you just think that wikipedia should emulate the restrictions of paper-based encyclopedias? Since Wikipedia is written by people writing about what interests them, less articles on things like games does not mean that there will be more articles on politics, economics and such, so I do not se a reason to restrict the creation of articles like this.

This user has had multiple vandalism warnings. I don't think they were seriously asking the question. ~ Hibana 07:06, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Yea, this article definetely deserves a part in Wikipedia. 128.6.175.53 21:41, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Not only should it be in Wikipedia, but this is an article that has the potential to become a featured article worthy of the Main Page.

Hmmmm....you think we should put this up for peer review soon? --Niroht 16:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

This article is far too epic as it stands now. It is far away from being a featured article as it is now. I am tempted to try to rewrite the problematic sections (most of the article, really), but it is a bit daunting. Anyway, things like "As Samus dodges these attacks and continues to damage the creature, Mother Brain prepares its most devastating attack, closing its eye and drawing energy toward its brain." do not belong here. The article should not be this detailed - it should describe the game, not narrate it. Much of the current narrative is inaccurate because of the non-linearity of the game anyway. Amaurea 12:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Right, I can fix some of that! *marches off*Niroht 12:39, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the gameplay section should be extended, I haven't played the game and was hoping for more info, that's what wikipedia is all about 83.104.158.166 21:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Speed run details

I just removed a portion of the speed run section here, which claimed that it was easier to do a tool-assisted speed run than a normal one. This seems to be contested, since those speed runs are judged by a totally different standard ("why are you jumping 1 frame too late there?"), so I considered writing that it is easier to get good times this way, but such details really belong in the speed run article itself, so I removed it here. Amaurea 15:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

The link [[Speedrun|tool-assisted speedrun]] should, in my opinion, simply link to tool-assisted speedrun, which currently redirects to speedrun anyways. My thinking, at least, is that someday somebody might change that redirect to a stub or even a full article. What do you think? I did not want to change it again without discussing... - CorbinSimpson 15:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Hm, that sounds like a pretty good idea, actually, but the policy is to avoid linking to redirects, so I don't think that will go down well with the majority. Amaurea 09:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Add Mock/Speed Ball?

I'm hesitant to add them myself because they're technically glitches, and I suppose they have more to do with Speedrunning than playing through the actual game. Still, they can (and maybe should) be considered 'Special Abilities' since they can be executed consistantly, so some discussion is warranted. Just in case not everyone knows what they are:

Mock/Speed Ball (Mock Ball is before Speed Booster Upgrade, Speed Ball is after)

With this ability you can speed up the morphball form. To execute you would start running with enough room to jump and land without impedence. During the jump, you should hold down until Samus is just about to hit the ground. Just before you land, tap down again and this time slide your thumb from down to the direction you were running. This should cause Samus to enter Morph Ball form just before she hits the ground without bouncing when she lands. You should now be traveling at the same speed (or maybe slightly faster) in Morph Ball as you were before landing. ---Moch and Speed Ball are performed in the same way, but you gain substantially more speed with Speed Ball, as well as the blue 'echoes' of Samus that are created when she accelerates with the Speed Boosters. --Epix998 07:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like it might be more appropriate to put it under a glitches heading or under speedrunning or some such, rather than in with the legitimate abilities. Just because a glitch can be executed consistently doesn't make it intentional.Niroht 15:01, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Mockball should be in there somewhere. - Corbin ∫ 1 ɱ p s ɔ ♫ ^{Rock on, dude!} 15:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I just realized....are you sure it isn't "mach ball" instead of moch ball?--Niroht 15:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I learned it as Speed Ball and Mockball. ("Mock" Speed Ball; it doesn't use the Speed Booster.) - Corbin ∫ 1 ɱ p s ɔ ♫ ^{Rock on, dude!} 19:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I meant Mock Ball, no idea where the H came from in my spelling, but it's all fixed now. As for putting it under a Glitches heading, I like that best of the options you mentoined, but that would take some doing...wouldn't want to create a new heading without having at least a somewhat comprehensive list. --Epix998 05:05, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget the Murder beam, the Speed booster Quick charge, Gravity Jump, and the blue suit. There's also a "Shoulder pump" glitch that allows you to move up to 10% faster by rapidly pressing the L or R button rapidly. Chris37599 23:40, 29 December 2006

You might put it in under speedrunning...--Niroht 18:04, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Metroid hatchling

After the Super Metroid grabs Samus, it seems to remember her. Does it transfer one of Mother Brain's attacks to her beam? --Tekkin58^{Talk to me here} 11:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Why story after "gameplay"?

I think since the removal of the detailed story line, this article has become an ugly mess. It's just a bunch of lists, and the lists are at the top, beneath information people might actually be interested in if they don't actually know anything about the game. Unless someone objects, I'm going to change the order of the sections at least, and possibly make some other changes.--QuasarTE 00:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Why was the story moved to a seperate article in the first place? WP:FICT is very clear on keeping plot synopsis on the main page. I'm bringing it back in and compressing the data. — Deckiller 14:51, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

There are issues with the plot synopsis (which I originally contributed, BTW) being too long and too akin to fan fiction with its highly detailed explanation of what is mostly a nonlinear game. To some degree, I agree with this. This article is now TOO detailed. Take a look at the article for Metroid Zero Mission. It is much better balanced than this has become. I'm tempted to add a cleanup macro, but I may find the time to take care of this myself soon. --QuasarTE 01:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I recommend using Final Fantasy VIII or Final Fantasy X as a template. — Deckiller 03:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Read this section!

Wikipedia is NOT a game guide. This means that highly detailed strategies, tips, controller moves, etc. are not on-topic in an article about a game. I have removed a ton of such quips in my recent massive revision to trim this article down to an acceptable size and flow. Please do not thoughtlessly readd this sort of information, because it's not appropriate.

Also inappropriate is a step-by-step walkthrough of gameplay, especially for this game, which is by its very nature highly nonlinear. It's useless to talk about what order bosses are defeated in, items are collected in, or what items are "optional" (nearly all are). If a player is sufficiently skilled, for example, Phantoon can be defeated before Kraid.

I was the original author of the Story section of the article, and even I admit it is too long. I have trimmed it back down greatly, even removing some of my original material in the process, and I think it is still messed up. There are too many pictures in that section, so one or more of them may need to be moved down.

If we want this article to be an A-quality game article, it's going to have to be more focused and less jumbled up. --QuasarTE 09:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

If you want to make it an A-quality article, you need to make sure it's accurate. For example, we don't have any evidence that Mother Brain's attack is the Hyper Beam (and some evidence exists that shows its not, such as the fact that MB's beam is cone shaped and traverses itself in a manner entirely differently than Samus'), nor do we have evidence that the Metroid Larva gave MB's energy to Samus (the energy could, in fact, have been Samus' own energy returned to her- remember that the larva earlier drained Samus of all but one energy point). Basically, all we can do is point out, step by the step, the confirmed things we know about the ending- Samus fights MB's second form, gets hit by a blast of energy from her eye, the Metroid appears and begins to drain MB (but not all the way- note she is still pink, not the pale grey of completely drained foes), then she gets up while the Metroid is saving Samus and begins to attack the Metroid, who then flies up towards MB and gets killed. Samus then begins to pulsate, gets up and proceeds to smash the brain to oblivion. Gotta keep things factual. Ex-Nintendo Employee 10:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

You make a good point, but much of that material has been added gradually by other people. I personally think there's a very strong argument that the MB's weapon is the Hyperbeam due to the way the exact same phasing palette is applied to both MB and Samus when they use the weapon, but that's ultimately what you could call fan conjecture or original research at any rate. I encourage other people to help tune this article, but not by simply cutting out huge chunks of it as has been done before. I think the section balance is pretty good right now.--QuasarTE 18:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I've barely sratched the surface yet but as it stands, the Gameplay section consists of lists that have little or no place here and should probably be axed directly and replaced with something that explains the mechanics.

And on this subject, the lead needs a citation from a reliable source concerning the game's size, though I am unable to locate one at present. Combination 13:14, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I really don't think that "axing" 90% of the information content will improve the article or is a worthy solution. I think there should be a way to both keep a good deal of this and simultaneously make it more presentable.--QuasarTE 17:06, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

See my newest edit to the weapon section. I believe it is a vast improvement, although this approach may not work with all the sections.--QuasarTE 17:33, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

It's still just a list that behooves no reader as it's not placed in a context. At best, it may work as a reference while the gameplay section is being written. Anyway, I'll see if I can contribute rather than shouting my mouth off on this talk page. Combination 22:10, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually... now that I think about it, a lot of the information that's here right now is superfluous and is actually already present on more appropriate articles -- for example, the list of Metroid game enemies, or the individual bosses' articles. Maybe a large-scale downsizing isn't uncalled for? --QuasarTE 04:28, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

"Shinespark"

Super Metroid never uses the name "Shinespark" anywhere, so why do people insist on trying to prove it was known as the Shinespark in this game? I never heard this word in my life until after the release of Metroid Fusion. If somebody wants to produce a authoritative citable source that uses Shinespark that was contemporary to the release of Super Metroid, knock yourself out. Otherwise it doesn't belong here aside from a mention about how it has been renamed later.--QuasarTE 17:04, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

i myself and all the people i know of have never called or even heard it called that we always called it the spineshank. it also sounds alot better.

Dude, Spineshank is a band. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by BenryHenson (talk • contribs) 10:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

The term "super jump" was used before Metroid Fusion came along. It seems to have become less common now, but can still be found on several websites and (for example) in the old FAQs on GameFAQs. I bet it originates with some strategy guide, but I can't verify that. Fredrik Johansson 06:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The technique was officially named "Shinespark" in a secret conversation in Metroid Fusion (very hard to get to, haven't done it myself). Ovavasour 19:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

It started being called "Shinespark" after someone noticed it's likeness to a Getter G (Getter Robo) finishing move of the same name. Speed running communities popularized the term. When it appeared in Fusion people mostly took it as the localization staff accepting the term into Officiality. Now, any real connection between the Getter finisher and the move in question is still unproven and must be considered coincidental until proven otherwise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.127.8.149 (talk) 09:50, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Gameplay section

The gameplay section should be prosified, and the story section looks quite good. Also, it might be a good idea to find some development and reception/criticism information. I'll give the article a copyedit once you guys are ready to go to PR/FA. — Deckiller 18:46, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

What does this mean precisely? I'm in the process of considering how to deal with the gameplay section. I improved the weapons part of it drastically the other day, so please don't kill it off or anything during the meantime. --QuasarTE 20:49, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I recommend putting all that gameplay information into paragraph forms. Samus' items can get a paragraph, the locations a paragraph, and so on. That way, they aren't lists. — Deckiller 04:31, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah, right. I tried something like that with the weapons, but apparently it's still not satisfactory. I'm wondering how much of the detail should actually be here and how much would be better placed in one of the other Metroid-series articles (or even a new article in that series if an appropriate one does not exist). --QuasarTE 02:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a paragraph describing the weapons in Super Metroid, and the reference link above it that brings the user to the main "Items in the Metroid series" article? That way you can have small descriptions, but if the user wants more information they have a way to get to it. Ex-Nintendo Employee 02:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, looks like someone just wiped out almost ALL of the information from this section. :P — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:19, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Super Missiles

If you play the game and actually count your shots, Super Missiles do three times the damage of regular Missiles. Metroids have a special weakness modifier that makes Super Missiles do five missiles worth of damage instead of three. Please stop changing the article to say that Super Missiles do 5x damage! The makuta 22:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

If they do 3x damage, Tell me how one S. Missile can kill a frozen Metroid if it takes 5 normal missiles to kill, and how can 4 S. Missiles kill Kraid, who takes 20 missiles to kill? Chris37599 23:34, 29 December 2006

Look closely at what I said: "Metroids have a special weakness modifier that makes Super Missiles do five missiles worth of damage instead of three." I've analyzed, edited, and reconstructed this game, I know how it ticks. Kraid takes 10 missiles to kill, not 20. 4 S. Missiles X 3 Missiles worth of damage = 12 Missiles. The makuta 17:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Spoiler warning?

Would it be redundant to add a spoiler warning to the section of the plot summary which deals with everything past the explanation of the four bosses? I realize that it is in the plot section, but the realization of the larva and super metroids being the same, as well as the entire final battle and the ending afterwards are both things I would consider to be spoilers. and personally would not want to go without warning. Then again, maybe I shouldn't, which is why I'm asking.

Spoilers are to be expected in a plot chapter, it's redundant. Combination 16:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Metroid Classic link

I've removed the link to the Metroid Classic website because it appears to have pretty much no content at all. Matt489Talk 21:24, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Speedrun/Glitch section

The section currently titled "pushing the limits" seems a bit.....way too long and detailed for me. As far as I can tell, the majority of the info in that section would only be relevant to speedrunners and glitch fanatics who will recognize the technical terms. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to compress it without having speedrun fanboys trying to disembowel me? --Niroht 21:36, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd suggest that we talk about this game's significance as a popular game for speedruns because of its nature, but pretty much leave it at that. Super Metroid is definitely a significant game for this sort of thing, but to talk in detail about what kinds of speed runs can be done and how to do them is to break into the "Game Guide" thing that WP seems so intent on discouraging. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 20:19, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I cut that section down a lot. A lot. And renamed it. It should be good now, we don't need to go into that much detail about it. --Niroht | Smoke signals 20:33, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Wii-bound?

There is no link given to prove that this game is coming to the Wii Virtual Console. And further-more it has not ben rated by the ESRB, (which has been known to happen months before the game's availability for download). And since it is already April, the "early 2007" estimate seems at best wishful thinking. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.206.113.198 (talk) 08:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

I had been told by a Nintendo employee that Super Metroid was rated by the ESRB, and that Super Metroid was on its way, but that no release date would be announced. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 18:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

That Super Metroid has been released on the wii virtual console is fact, but I don't believe it is significant enough to warrant its inclusion in an encyclopedia entry. That sort of information is best found on IGN or some other gaming site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.221.254 (talk) 19:27, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. Most pages on Wikipedia for individual games list every system the game was released on. Arrowned 05:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Failed "good article" nomination

This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of June 3, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?: Plot summary needs cleanup, specially for in-universe perspective (see WP:WAF)

2. Factually accurate?: The biggest problem in the article: only 4 citations, with 2 actually contained in the "References" section.

3. Broad in coverage?: Lacks section on development, the lead doesn't tell about the game's reception, gameplay section is too short.

4. Neutral point of view?: Only complain is lack of criticism

5. Article stability? Pass, the only big changes were to remove game guide material

6. Images?: Lack fair use rationales

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. If you feel that this review is in error, feel free to take it to a GA review. Thank you for your work so far. — igordebraga ≠ 01:03, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Super Metroid: Redesign

It has come to my attention that someone aliased Drewseph, through the use of hacking the ROM and extensive coding, has released an "extended" version of the game just last year, with a larger map and more in-game cinematic-type sequences as seen towards the end of the game. Is this significant enough to warrant another section in the article, as it represents the still-continuing fanbase? Or is it too technical/irrelevant? J-Rod 15:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Redesign is not the only Super Metroid romhack, though it is the biggest one, as far as I know. Super Metroid Legacy, Super Metroid Limit and Super Metroid Impossible are other hacks. Additionally, Super Metroid Insanity and Super Metroid Alliance are in the works, with high expectations. Since there is so much ongoing romhacking with this game, I think a small section of paragraph would be in order, but I am not sure if a list of all major hacks would be appropriate. It might be enough to mention only Redesign by name. What do you mean by cinematic sequences, by the way? The only ones I can think of are the opening and ending, which are unchanged. Amaurea 21:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I just came to this page to see if it had a hacks section to it. Super Metroid really stands out in terms of the number and quality of ROM hacks that have been produced for it. I'll see if I can find any credible sources pertaining to the ROM hacks and then whip up a paragraph or two about them.M00npirate (talk) 23:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Super Metroid coming soon.

Well,there has now been a confirmation that not only Super Metroid is coming soon but also Metroid on the Virtual Console,I figured we should put this up because the current statement doesn't have a source.I just don't have time to put it up so here's the source:

http://gonintendo.com/?p=22584#respondXLS724 22:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure we can rely on this source. Gonintendo.com doesn't appear to be an official site, but rather a fan site, and I've seen no official announcement from Nintendo or the usual Gamespot-like sources about Metroid/Super Metroid being released or "in the queue". I'd certainly love for this to be true, but the presence of images on the VC Servers says nothing about when or if the games will actually be released at all, or when it'll happen. That leaves us with speculation. — KieferSkunk (talk) — 23:50, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

There is a notice on the Wii Shop Channel stating Super Metroid will come out the 20th. Miles Blues 19:41, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

3d remake

Has anyone heard of a fully 3d remake of this game? I was told in passing by a co-worker, but can not seem to find anything to back this up. 63.85.53.130 (talk) 16:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I've heard nothing on this. By the way, Wikipedia talk pages are not discussion forums; we should try to keep discussion here specifically on how to improve this article. Further on that note is the fact that actual discussion forums are more likely to have people who have heard information about something like this anyway; perhaps you should ask at places such as Metroid Database. Arrowned (talk) 18:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)