Talk:Stirling

Economy

I am a bit confused by the suggestion that it is the A9 bypass, built "under the station" in the 1960s, which is responsible for separating the town from the river. I lived in Stirling till 1973, and as I recall, the bypass dates from about 1973, also it does not pass under the station, only its approach road, and through the sites of the cattle market, the old Regal cinema, and maybe platform 1 and a siding, not forgetting the gas works. I have not done an edit yet because I think some more information is needed to get this right, for instance, when and what actually did initially seperate the town from the river? Was it not the construction of the railway station itself? Or was it the MOD site, because it seems to me that there would have been access from the road to Riverside to the foreshore at one time? Tiger99 (talk) 20:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

• Fair point. That section is overstating things and omitting the role of the former MOD site. That said, the local historian Bob McCutcheon told me once of a suppressed water flow from the town walls down Station Rd and that it reasserted itself as flooding at the old Station Hotel when its way to the Forth was blocked by the station underpass, so there is a sense that the town was divided from the river by that. AllyD (talk) 21:03, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Somerfield Store

is it really neccessary to make a mention of the closure of a Somerfield store in St Ninians in Stirling. it is wasting valuable space. i for one would like to see this section removed. who agrees with me? (to relieve space here if you want, you can make your comments on Kilnburn under the section Somerfield, Stirling} Kilnburn (talk) 02:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

...And gone! Also did some rearrangement around the Rainbow Slides section: also arguably too topical for the article, but the resulting lack of public swimming facility in a city is worthy of note I think. So I've blended it with Sports. AllyD (talk) 09:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

thank goodness, it's gone. should never got a mention on here at all. thanks, AllyD Kilnburn (talk) 22:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

G8

I've deleted the paragraph about the G8 summit because I don't think it belongs here. If every event happening in Stirling was added to the page it would quickly become unmanageable. -- Orourkek 09:06, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

no it doesn't deserve a mention here. well done. Kilnburn (talk) 02:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Population

I updated the city population from 40,000 to 78,833, per the 2001 census information at [1]. I didn't update the regional total of 85,000 (as the 2001 census was for central region, not Stirling Council). I suppose only Bridge of Allan and Dunblane are particularly large, but all the myriad wee places in Stirling Council's Northern extent will surely add up to quite a bit. If anyone has a reasonable source (or even just the size for Dunblane) then we can update the regional total. -- Finlay McWalter 00:50, 22 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Twinning

Stirling council isn't terribly consistent about the twinning status of Dunedin:

• In [2] they say "Stirling is twinned with Villeneuve d'Ascq in France, and we have a 'friendship link' with Dunedin in Florida, USA."
• But in [3] they say "Stirling’s twin town, Dunedin, Florida"

So I erred on the site of inclusion, and marked both Duneidin and Villeneuve-d'Ascq as full "twin towns". -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 19:35, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

Dunedin has always refereed to Stirling as a "sister city" so I assumed it was reciprocal. PlainSight 20:54, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

"Twinning" is the term used in the UK (I'd never heard of a "friendship link" until today); "sister city" and "twin city" mean the same thing (per town twinning). "Friendship link" sounds rather second rate, but it doesn't seem to deter Stirling's councillors from making "fact finding" trips, no doubt including "tourist studies" of Disneyworld :) -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:10, August 20, 2005 (UTC)

LOL. Well, at least I'm glad to see that it's not only small-town politicians in the US that go on "fact finding" junkets at the taxpayer's expense! Obviously it's an international political perk. -PlainSight 01:16, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Royal burgh

This can't be right:

"Stirling was a royal burgh until 2002"

All burghs were explicitly abolished in 1975 by the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1973 Lozleader 21:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

CFD

The related Category:Members of the United Kingdom Parliament from Stirling constituencies has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for Discussion page.

--Mais oui! 09:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

delete: now this is a pointless article Kilnburn (talk) 02:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Srivling

This is not the Lowland Scots for Stirling. I have seen the likes of Strevelin etc, but can someone suggest a preferale form? --MacRusgail 21:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

King's Park F.C.

Hi, just looking for a opinion on including the now defunct football team King's Park F.C. into the Stirling article as the did play in Stirling also they closed down due to a historical event - only German WW2 bomb to fall on the town destroyed their ground. thoughts. Gorillamusic 21:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

GFDL Sothea seam (talk) 03:02, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Smallest city in Scotland

This is not true. Dunblane (a local city near it) is about a quarter of the size. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.79.75.203 (talk) 03:51, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

personally, Stirling shouldn't be considered a city. to be a city, it needs to have a cathedral or at least an abbey. anyway, i believe, Dunkeld is the smallest city in Scotland. -Previous unsigned comment (due to inappropriate syntax from 81.79.75.203)

The whole "cathedral city" thing never held in Scotland. The term "city" was not used in Scotland prior to the Union (our nearest equivalent was the royal burgh) and by the Union, Scotland didn't have a "holy see", so a cathedral was of no relevance whatsoever. Prof Wrong (talk) 17:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Stirling is officially a city, although it is too small to be considered a city in geographical terms. Both Dunkeld and Dunblane are both too small to be cities in the mind of a geographer and are not officially recognised as cities. They are only really recognised as cities by the local people. Stirling does actually have an abbey, Cambuskenneth Abbey, which is in the City of Stirling, but that is besides the point. 129.215.76.45 (talk) 10:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Dialect

I think it would be useful if someone could add a section on language / dialect as I don't think this has been covered at all. 129.215.76.45 (talk) 10:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, Stirling has no notable dialect. That said, I grew up here 82.3.242.139 (talk) 02:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The only thing I can think of is "eh no?" which is shared with Falkirk. Prof Wrong (talk) 17:16, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Name origin

Just wondered if we can expand the stuff on the origin of the name...?

As well as the attributed Latinised form in the town motto, Barbour's The Brus uses the form Strevillyne/Strevilline (although at this time, I don't believe there was an orthographic distinction between V and U, and the labio-dental /v/ is largely missing from Scots, as I understand it). The poem was written in 1375, although the earliest extant version was transcribed in 1489, so no accounting for transcription errors!

The current version of the old spelling isn't dated or attributed.... Prof Wrong (talk) 17:23, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Stirling Projects

I would like to suggest adding a small amount of information about projects taking place in Stirling, such as the Going Carbon Neutral Stirling carbon reduction programme which has been running since 2008. Problem is, there isn't anywhere obvious to place information like this at the moment. Would it be appropriate to add a section to the article for things like this, or do people feel this should be kept for other Wikipedia pages? Clare Speed (talk) 10:30, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

landmarks

i would like to start a landmarks section for the Stirling article, plus i do have a couple of pictures to add. is there any request for this, though? Kilnburn (talk) 00:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Sir Robert Felton, governor of Scarborough Castle, deceased at Stirling 1314

User:Mugginsx is seeking a specific mention of his person's death at Stirling because "He was notable because he was governor of Scarborough Castle an important position". However was he notable in the history of Stirling, which is the subject of this article?

• Felton goes unmentioned in Mair's "Stirling, The Royal Burgh" (unlike Gilbert de Clare, 8th Earl of Gloucester who died at Bannockburn).
• It is not common practice to list people in the articles for their place of death unless this had a notable influence on the place (otherwise the articles on London, Paris etc would be extremely lengthy).
• Wikipedia has no article on Felton, though he is mentioned and referenced in the Scarborough Castle article. The next step upwards would be an article on the man and his life, with wikilinks to both the Scarborough and Stirling articles.

But, subject to another consensus emerging from discussion here, I see no reason for discussion of Felton in the Stirling article. AllyD (talk) 09:33, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Fine with me. Take it out if you feel that strongly about it. Mugginsx (talk) 10:25, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Someone edited it

This guy edited it! Removed the whole thing nearly! Can you help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.188.136.18 (talk) 11:10, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

County/shire membership

Hi. Could somebody make it more clear what shire/county Stirling is part of? It would be nice to have it mentioned on the right hand side underneath the first photo where other info is listed.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.247.163.32 (talk) 18:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

• Scotland does not have shires/counties nowadays: see Shires of Scotland for the pre-1975 position (when there was a Stirlingshire). AllyD (talk) 18:29, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

  Shires are still used by state organisations, such as Historic Environment Scotland as they are still considered useful by academics though have no basis in local government. Stirlingdigger (talk) 09:50, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Controversy about flag in town

• Archer, Graeme. "Stirling is a British city. So let it fly the British flag from its council offices."

The Telegraph. October 10, 2013. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:05, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

• A passing piece of politicking not noteworthy enough to include in the article. (Personally I'd make more of a case for Stirling Council apparently having taken control over the weather pattern and dictating when the summer growing season ends as a way to reduce pressure on themselves and their failure to collect bins.) AllyD (talk) 08:00, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

On Cities

An IP is reverting to argue that Stirling is second smallest city in Scotland - behind Dunblane - rather than the smallest. Please see Cathedral_city#Scotland. AllyD (talk) 11:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Cathedral cities are not Cities with a Capitol C. If you wish to count Cathedral cities then Dunkeld is smaller. Stirlingdigger (talk) 09:43, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Town Motto

Sorry, don't like supplied translation of town motto Hic Armis Bruti Scoti Stant Hic Cruce Tuti. Though I'm sorry to lose "the Britons", doesn't it in fact say, Here through force of arms the Scots stand immovable, here watched over by the Cross [=?Holyrood]

Also on derivation of name, if from British, I could suggest ystre felin "Mill Border", Ystre(f) felin "mill ham", or much more comfortable construction and sense, although not so close, ystrad y felin "mill river-plain/mill mead"

TimapHywel (talk) 17:20, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Possible nonsense?

I refer to this: "In 2017 electification of the Stirling-Alloa-Dunblane railway is likely to lead to significant disruption of road traffic in Stirling which could last for some time."

Is/was this just rather poor journalism? I believe it was put here in good faith, but its source, the sensationalist press. often do not measure up to the standards that Wikipedians might expect.

I suggest that someone assesses this, and either deletes or re-words it accordingly. I rarely get to visit Stirling nowadays but am very familiar with the town and I can't see how railway electrification would disrupt road traffic.

If I have got it wrong, please feel free to explain. Tiger99 (talk) 21:05, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

• The text is referring to the detours caused by the ongoing replacement of the Kerse Road railway bridge: [4]. Though that source says that "Journey times in some areas have increased since the full closure of Kerse Road but the feared gridlock failed to materialise". So not nonsense, but not a disruption of encyclopaedic long-term impact. AllyD (talk) 21:13, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Was Stirling once capital of Scotland?

This article says that Stirling was at one time the capital of Scotland. I heard on the radio this morning (September 22 2018) that Stirling is one of Scotland's newest cities, so I find it difficult to believe a place could be a capital without being a city. Vorbee (talk) 08:10, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Stirling became as city status in 2002; before that it was one of the largest towns in the border region with a very long history. Artifacts have been recovered indicating habitation in the area earlier than 2000 BC. The position of Stirling Castle made it one of the most important bastions in a war with England, so it is hardly surprising the Scottish Kings might want to spend some time there. King David I gave the town the status of a Royal Burgh and established a permanent residence there. Mediatech492 (talk) 13:08, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Wallace Statue

This hasn't been on display in Stirling since 2008 and now lives in Brechin. It's probably not appropriate for this article. Catfish Jim and the soapdish 14:49, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Good point. I've adjusted the photo array and given more emphasis to the Atheneum statue. In time, maybe someone will create a photo of the other statue in its resting place at Glebe Park, Brechin. AllyD (talk) 21:01, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Unsourced addition to History/Etymology

This unsourced text had been added to this section between the (cited) consideration of Gaidhlig and Brythonic name origins:

There is also a theory about the origin of the local language from Old Ukrainian language, which seems probable in the context of the distribution of the haplogroup R1a1a1b1a3 (S221/Z284, S443/Z289), which is related to some regions of Scotland and Ukraine. In the context of this theory, Sriblin comes from the Ukrainian word meaning "silver" - срібло (pronounces as "sriblo"). The ending "-in"/"-yn" is typical for toponyms in Ukraine (for example such cities like Nizhyn/-in, Tul'chyn/-in etc). That is, "Sriblyn" or "Sriblin" literally means the possessive case of the word "silver" ("sriblo") and can literally be interpreted as "a place where there is silver." Considering that there are silver deposits within 8 miles, it further strengthens this seemingly incredible theory.

In the absence of citations, I have removed this. (If sources are identified and the text is being restored, I would suggest it would be placed after consideration of Gaidhlig and Brythonic origins. AllyD (talk) 06:31, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

I would add that above is considered to have no basis by most academics. Stirlingdigger (talk) 09:49, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Stùc a' Chroin

I've just swapped out the old skyline image in the infobox for this one, but I'd just like to confirm that it is Stùc a' Chroin visible behind the castle and not Ben Vorlich. Thanks, A.D.Hope (talk) 20:32, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Walking the Marches

Where the description discusses the Walking of the Marches, I would like to link to the Marches Website. Stirling's Marches are also the most northerly in Scotland and the only ones on foot. The evidence for this is in the website lin. This has been deleted by another user. Stirlingdigger (talk) 09:46, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

The thorough Stirling Archives item on its history could be a useful reference, rather than primary-source content from the event site (and better as a reference as an external link). And on a related topic, with Wiki Loves Folklore ongoing, uploading any photos of the recent events to Commons could be helpful, though probably not as an addition to the present article. AllyD (talk) 10:28, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

that's a good source on the history, thanks, but does not tell people about what's happening next year which is why I'd like to link to the current website. Can I do this or will it annoy people? I should say I'm a volunteer with the Marches. Stirlingdigger (talk) 10:52, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I am now very confused. I added the reference to the Stirling Archives item which identifies the history of the Marches as suggested and found that someone has removed it!

I also see that someone has asked for a citation for the Marches now taking place at the end of May...the citation is the website which someone has deleted! Stirlingdigger (talk) 11:23, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Archaeological Research by Dr Murray Cook

I am Dr Cook and the only active archaeologist researching Stirling. My work is mentioned in the work. I would like to draw attention to this by adding my name. I feel this adds authentication to the work and allows people to contact me for more information. This has been rejected by another user. Stirlingdigger (talk) 09:48, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I would start by reading WP:COI. You've done the first step, i.e. disclosing your potential conflict of interest, but note the second and third points:

• you are strongly discouraged from editing affected articles directly;
• you may propose changes on talk pages (by using the {{edit COI}} template)

I tend to agree with the other editor who previously reverted you, in that your name is not of encyclopedic relevance here, and I've reverted the edit. Feel free to give a further rationale for inclusion if you like. Rosbif73 (talk) 11:02, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

thanks, the main reason is to allow the reader to fully access the results. What is being referenced are second hand sources rather than the primary material. This allows the curious to pursue the topic deeper.

A second reason is one or my own reputation I simply think it is matter of fairness that research that I did in my own time be publicly acknowledged. Stirlingdigger (talk) 11:18, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

With respect to COI, in my opinion, matters relating to you, your research, or your activities should be done through the proposed-edit procedure described above. People who deserve recognition for their work, and can show what they did via secondary sources, regularly use this process to get that recognition integrated into articles. I think we all want a relatively neutral and balanced article and the community has judged that the best way to do this is by encouraging this process.

Matters not relating to you, which you are able to document using secondary sources, are in my opinion OK to edit yourself. Oblivy (talk) 12:22, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. That makes sense but I would still argue that where my work is quoted I should be referenced, however, I will await a consensus and follow it. Stirlingdigger (talk) 12:56, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

If a work of yours is cited (as an inline citation to a secondary source) then your name will of course appear as author in the reference list. However, it would be unusual on Wikipedia to mention your name in the body of the article. Rosbif73 (talk) 13:08, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, it is the results of my work rather than the published works themselves that have been quoted. Fair enough re the actual mention of me in the entry but my attempts to provide formal references to published articles have also been deleted. Stirlingdigger (talk) 13:14, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Stirling Burgh Wall

Famously Stirling's wall is the best preserved in Scotland, I would like to draw attention to my research on the wall. I have done this and provided a link to evidence (my own website) but it has been deleted. Can someone advise how to add it without getting deleted please? Stirlingdigger (talk) 10:55, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

See my note above about COI editing. Propose a change here and see whether there is consensus for it to be included. Rosbif73 (talk) 11:04, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, re the wall, have added extra detail about the wall (which was deleted) and additional sources, however, I have not added my own name as this appears to be controversial. Stirlingdigger (talk) 11:19, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Randolphfield stones

Hi I would like to add the formal academic reference to the section that refers to my excavation at Randolphfield stones. While the newspaper article is ok there is far more nuance to the argument which is reflected in the published article (published under my name). I have tried to link to it twice both with my name and without it, on both occasions its been deleted. The full reference is here if someone else would feel happier adding it given my perceived COI. fnh.stir.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/FNH-Volume-41-Text-and-Plates181122.pdf Stirlingdigger (talk) 13:03, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

WP prefers secondary sources, and the articla already has a secondary source for the dating of the Randolphfield stones, so there's no need to add your (primary) source. Rosbif73 (talk) 13:13, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

it is however, not as good, surely your are striving for the best reference? The argument re the dating is far more nuanced. Stirlingdigger (talk) 13:16, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Your article is a primary source (as set out at WP:PRIMARY) and, while it is undoubtedly a "better" reference for those with specialised knowledge of the subject, Wikipedia prefers secondary sources that verify claims without the need for specialised knowledge. Rosbif73 (talk) 13:45, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

thanks! Stirlingdigger (talk) 14:17, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Stirling Burgh Wall

A revised post about the Stirling Burgh Wall. My post about it being the best preserved in Scotland was removed. I would like to add links that this is indeed the case and also to provide links to the maps made of it by the military. As I am researching the wall there may be a perceived COI. Historic Environment Scotland's Statement of significance for the wall, which confirms its status is here Stirling, town wall & bastion & Port Street Bastion at 44 Bastion Wynd (SM1754) The maps of the wall are held by the National Map Library of Scotland and are here. A Plan of the Town and Castle of Sterling 1725 - Military Maps of Scotland Stirlingdigger (talk) 13:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I've added the first of those which, while a primary source, is clear as to the preservation of the wall. The second is a pure primary source, and using it to back the claim that it is the best map of the wall would be WP:OR. Rosbif73 (talk) 13:29, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

thanks! What's the best way to get the map in? Clearly there are images through the post which are also primary sources? Stirlingdigger (talk) 14:33, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Assuming the image of the map is suitably licensed (see WP:IMAGEPOL), you could in theory upload it (preferably to Commons) and then add the image to the article. However, I'm not convinced it is sufficiently relevant as an illustration to this article which is about Stirling as a whole. Rosbif73 (talk) 14:57, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

the map is open source, but happy to follow your lead. Stirlingdigger (talk) 15:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

New discoveries on Stirling's Burgh Wall

Another one for the group mind. My research on the wall has revealed it is more significant than previously thought, a Royal Project rather than a Burgh one. In addition, I have found previously unknown bastions on it. As this is my research and the primary source is me there is an obvious COI. The results were however, picked up by the press. Stirling: New Scottish archaeological discoveries on city walls to be unveiled | The National Is this of sufficient interest to be included? Stirlingdigger (talk) 15:15, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Royal Park

Stirling's Royal Park is the oldest and best preserved in Scotland. I think there is scope for a new section on this. The material rarely appears in secondary sources but there are lots of primary sources. I would be happy to provide them if someone is happy to create one or edit my text? I am conscious of the perceived COI as lots of the work is my own. Stirlingdigger (talk) 15:20, 17 February 2025 (UTC)