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Note to reviewer: While this person's history is long, the event of this month makes interest in him especially high at the moment. So if possible, a quick publication of the article would be good, in that it would help sate public interest. 2603:7000:2143:8500:F992:48F2:6C05:2099 (talk) 00:39, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not a Criminal Biography but a biography that includes crimes
I have changed the WikiProject Criminal Biography banner to the WikiProject Crime banner because the article is a biography that includes a mention of criminal behaviour of the subject. However, this criminal behaviour is not really the primary focus of the article, merely an incidental part of the subject's overall life. In other words, the criminal behaviour is notable because the subject is a notable person for other reasons, rather than the criminal behaviour being the prime reason for notability. While the article gives due weight to the criminal behaviour, it does not dominate the article as it would in a criminal biography. Changing the banner has a minimal impact on the WikiProject assessment, because both banners are assessed in the same WikiProject, but the Crime banner allows B-class assessment questions to be used. If you disagree with this change, please discuss and explain your thinking before changing the banner. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 11:58, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
interesting. I’m not sure what the material impact difference is on the article. If there is none,perhaps I should not care. But as with Jeffrey Epstein and Larry Nasser, it seems both should apply. Both of those people were noted for other activities first. But the print that was spilled devoted to them came fast and furious w their arrests for sex crimes. At a higher rate of coverage than during their non criminal careers. And w Epstein, as here, especially w their sudden death in prison from what would appear to be something other than old age. In fact, this fellow didn’t have a Wp article about him until his arrest and his death in Prison. My leaning given all that is to - same as Epstein and Nasser - have the article covered by both crime and criminal biography. Thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:2143:8500:50CA:A49C:529C:9216 (talk) 08:15, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@2603:7000:2143:8500:4988:58A5:565D:7845: Both the WikiProject Criminal Biography and WikiProject Crime banner templates refer to same "Crime-related" assessment table and log. You can use either banner template and the same assessment table is updated. The advantage of using the {{WikiProject Crime}} banner template is that you can add a set of B-class assessment questions that are not available for the {{WikiProject Criminal Biography}} banner template. In some respects, it doesn't matter which banner is chosen, but the extra utility of the crime banner tips the balance for me. There are other considerations in this case, too. Firstly, the subject is alleged to have committed a crime, so WP:BLPCRIME also applies. This means the subject should be presumed innocent until found guilty and convicted in a court of law of the crimes he is alleged to have committed. This seems unlikely now he has died. Also the manner of his death is currently under investigation and has the potential to result in criminal charges against others. Wikipedia should be cautious at labeling somebody a criminal if the threshold to convict a person has not been reached. While the charges strongly suggest pattern of criminal behaviour and lifestyle, there is a lack of any convictions. As far as I can tell from the article the subject hadn't been convicted of any crime and the crimes that he was alleged to have committed remain untested in court. Even if he was convicted of the alleged crimes, he was not primarily notable for those crimes, so we are not writing a biography of a criminal, we are writing a biography about this person's life, where crime is also present in it, too. I think the cases of both Jeffrey Epstein and Larry Nasser are somewhat different as both of them have convicted of crimes they were charged with. Even so, however heinous you consider their offending, they were not primarily notable for just being criminals but mostly notable for something else in addition to being criminals. Compare these people to someone like Pablo Escobar, who I would consider warrants being considered a criminal. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:18, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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