Talk:Statue of Nathan Hale (Chicago)/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: APK (talk · contribs) 04:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 04:50, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it well written?

   A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:

   B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:

2. Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?

   A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

   B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):

   C. It contains no original research:

   D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:

   B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:

5. Is it stable?

   It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:

   Stable.

6. Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   I've passed this article as it meets and exceeds the criteria for a Good Article. I did want to leave some closing comments. You can choose to ignore them or take action on them, it's up to you:

   • The image in the infobox is one of several pre-renovation images that we have. Obviously, they are superior to the newer images, but this can be confusing for the reader since the newer images represent the sculpture in an entirely different way. I believe commons has a lot of really great photographers in that area who could easily get us a new image. Just something to consider.
   • As previously discussed, the Riedy 1981 source has some interesting pointers for further article research and development. There's still a few unanswered questions that linger like garlic and onions in an Italian kitchen. Did Howell and Hood design the courtyard in mind for the statue? Riedy indicates that McCormick originally wanted to place the statue somewhere in the city but was forced to put it on the property of the Tribune. We don't know the background of his dispute with the city nor if he made earlier accommodations with Howell and Hood to incorporate it into their design. It would be fascinating to find out more, but this means getting into the weeds of some hard to find information.
   • There's no mention of McCormick as the Colonel in the current version. It's not necessary, of course, but citation 2 makes note of it (see "References" section below)
   • I'm not fond of the sentence "Yale is where McCormick, Pratt, and Hale had attended school". I think this could be rewritten to make it a bit more interesting.
   • The "Memorial plans" section uses the word "made" twice in repetition. Try using a different word in the second instance.
   • I'm still not happy with the phrasing of "This did not stop the festivities though". Perhaps revisit the source on that?
   • Regarding "Amongst those in the reviewing stand..." There may be a good opportunity to evoke irony here, as it's likely that some of the people listed here opposed placing the statue in the greater Chicago area (See my comment up above in 2).
   • Other statues of Hale have been sculpted by...Lee Lawrie! He created a sculpture of Hale for Harkness Tower, although try as I might, I can't find a single image of it.[1]
   • Consider bundling one-time use sources used by themselves and in combination (such as 10-13) together as one cited source.

   Good work and thanks for writing such an interesting article! Viriditas (talk) 21:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Feedback

Lead

• I think several things can be done to improve this lead. When I read the lead, it generated more questions than answers. YMMV.

• It's obvious that there are a lot of statues of Nathan Hale, most of which (but not all) are replicas of Bela Pratt's design. I wanted to know how many statues of Nathan Hale there were in the United States and how this one fit into the timeline, and how many were replicas versus original works. Perhaps the lead isn't the place for all of that information, but maybe at least one sentence can summarize the state of affairs. The lead does say it is a replica, but as a reader, I would appreciate a bit more info. It looks like Pratt's design was shared around the country in the intervening years, and we should at least explain this. I found at least eight major statues online (I think there's quite a few more), listed in order although the dates vary from completion to installation to dedication so I'm not sure they are correct or consistent: State Capitol (Hartford, Karl Gerhardt, 1886); Wadsworth Atheneum (Hartford, Enoch Smith Woods, 1889); City Hall Park (New York City, Frederick MacMonnies, 1890?); Yale University (New Haven, Bela Pratt, 1913?); Tribune Tower (Chicago, Guido Gargani, 1930?); Robert F. Kennedy Department of Justice Building (Washington, D.C, Bela Pratt, 1948); Fort Nathan Hale (New Haven, ?, ?); George Bush Center for Intelligence (Langley, Bela Pratt, 1973).

• Where did you find the list of statues? APK hi :-) (talk) 05:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• @APK: I just put it together from what I was able to find, mostly from SIRIS, and the rest from state and local sources. I have not completed the sourcing and the dates are mixed between creation and dedication. But I did want to put something together for you, so I have attached the following table of 16 major works. You can do what you like with the list. I note there are at least six replicas (possibly more) of Pratt's original statue.

• Thank you very much. I added some to the lede. Before I add it to the body I wanted to see what you thought. APK hi :-) (talk) 05:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  @APK: Looks good. The only thing I would recommend is specifying it is Pratt's replica in the new paragraph. And technically, you could just move that paragraph out to the body, expand it, and just add a single sentence to the lead. It doesn't matter how you do it, but I did notice that you could shorten it in the lead if you so desired.

•  Done I found another replica in NYC. APK hi :-) (talk) 04:38, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended content

Year Image Title Artist Medium Dimensions Location Notes 1846 Captain Nathan Hale Monument (Coventry) Henry Austin Obelisk; granite 45-foot (14 m); 125 tons Nathan Hale Cemetery, Coventry, Connecticut, U.S. 1886 Nathan Hale (Connecticut State Capitol) Karl Gerhardt Full-length statue; Bronze Connecticut State Capitol, East Lobby, Hartford, Connecticut, U.S. 1889 Nathan Hale (Wadsworth Atheneum) Enoch Smith Woods Statue; Bronze (sculpture) 10 feet-high Wadsworth Atheneum, Hartford, Connecticut, U.S. 1893 Statue of Nathan Hale (New York City) Frederick William MacMonnies Statue; Bronze (sculpture) Sculpture: 6 ft. x 3 ft. x 1 ft. 6 in.; Base: 5 ft. 1 in. City Hall Park, New York City (moved from Broadway at Murray Street), U.S. 1905 Bust of Nathan Hale Enoch Smith Woods Bust; Bronze (sculpture); Granite (base) Sculpture: 22 x 16 x 12 in.; Base: H. 6 x Diam. 2 ft. East Haddam, Connecticut, U.S. 1907 Statue of Nathan Hale (Saint Paul) William Ordway Partridge Statue; Bronze (sculpture); Granite (base) Sculpture: H. 7 ft.; Base: 86 x 65 x 65 in. Nathan Hale Park, Summit-University, Saint Paul, Minnesota, U.S. 1913 Statue of Nathan Hale (Connecticut Hall) Bela Pratt Statue; Bronze (sculpture) Sculpture: 78 1/4 x 23 1/2 x 23 in. (198.8 x 59.7 x 58.4 cm); Base: 36 x 27 1/2 x 27 1/2 in. (91.4 x 69.9 x 69.9 cm) Yale University, Connecticut Hall, New Haven, Connecticut, U.S. 1929? Nathan Hale Monument (New Haven) Bela Pratt (original)? Unknown (replica) Fort Nathan Hale, New Haven, Connecticut, U.S. 1935 Statue of Nathan Hale (Williams Park) Frederick William MacMonnies (original); Battista Bottinelli, Jaboeuf & Rouard Fondeurs (replica) Statue; Bronze (sculpture); Granite (base) Sculpture: 94 in. x 29 in. x 2 ft.; Pedestal: H. 88 in. x Diam. 88 in.; Base: H. 94 in. W. 20 in. Williams Park, New London, Connecticut, U.S. 1940 Statue of Nathan Hale (Chicago) Bela Pratt (original); Guido Gargani (replica) Full-length statue; Bronze (sculpture); Granite (base) 1.8 cm × 0.8 cm (6 in × 2.5 in) Tribune Tower, Chicago, Illinois, U.S. 1948 Statue of Nathan Hale (Washington, D.C.) Bela Pratt (original); Douglas Orr (architect); Roman Bronze Works (replica) Statue; Bronze (sculpture); Granite (base) Sculpture: 76 x 26 x 23 in.; Base: 49 1/4 x 27 x 26 1/2 in. Robert F. Kennedy Department of Justice Building, 9th Street and Constitution Avenue NW, Washington, D.C., U.S. 1951 Statue of Nathan Hale (Bristol) Bela Pratt (original); Unknown (replica) First Congregational Church, Bristol, Connecticut, U.S. 1956? Statue of Nathan Hale (Tulane) Tulane University Law School, New Orleans, Louisiana, U.S. 1966? Statue of Nathan Hale (Phillips Academy) Bela Pratt (original); Unknown (replica) Statue: bronze Nathan Hale House, Phillips Academy, Andover, Massachusetts, U.S. 1971? Statue of Nathan Hale (New London) Mitchell College, New London, Connecticut, U.S. 1973 Statue of Nathan Hale (Langley) Bela Pratt (original); Unknown (replica) George Bush Center for Intelligence, Langley, Virginia, U.S. References

• The bronze statue of Nathan Hale that stands in front of the Tribune Tower in Chicago, Illinois, is a replica of the one originally installed at Yale University in 1899.

• Can we say that it is one of x number of replicas?

• @APK: Just did another read through of the lead. I wonder if we can tighten up some of the prose? I found a useful source here. This is just an example, please don't take it too seriously.

Before The bronze statue of Nathan Hale that stands in front of the Tribune Tower in Chicago, Illinois, is a replica of the one originally installed at Yale University in 1899. It honors an American hero from the Revolutionary War who was executed for spying on the Kingdom of Great Britain. The original statue was sculpted by Bela Pratt and the replica in Chicago by Guido Gargani. The architect who designed the statue's granite base was Leo Weissenborn. The statue was located in the Nathan Hale Courtyard until the conversion of the Tribune Tower into residential units, when it was moved to face the building along Michigan Avenue. The idea to erect the statue was by Chicago Tribune founder, Robert R. McCormick, a World War I veteran who became a staunch isolationist during the lead up to World War II. He had been a longtime supporter of the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) program, which prepares students to enter the military. He wanted to install a statue of an American patriot and dedicate it to younger generations, who he hoped would show the same courage. The statue was first displayed at WGN's radio studio during a special event. The dedication and unveiling took place a few months later on June 4, 1940. It was attended by tens of thousands of onlookers and the parade was composed of 10,000 ROTC cadets. The statue is one of several replicas throughout the United States. Additional locations where a replica has been installed include Fort Nathan Hale and Bristol's First Congregational Church in Connecticut, the Robert F. Kennedy Department of Justice Building in Washington, D.C., the Phillips Academy in Massachusetts, and the George Bush Center for Intelligence in Virginia. Other statues of Hale have been sculpted by Frederick William MacMonnies, Karl Gerhardt, and William Ordway Partridge.

After Nathan Hale is a bronze sculpture of Nathan Hale (1755–1776), an American Revolutionary War hero. The statue, an idealized depiction of Hale just before he was executed for spying on the Kingdom of Great Britain, is a replica of an original by Bela Pratt, first designed in 1899 and installed at Yale University in 1914. The replica was created by Guido Gargani, with a granite base by architect Leo Weissenborn. The statue was completed in 1940 and installed at the Nathan Hale Court of the Tribune Tower in Chicago, Illinois. When the Tribune Tower was converted into residential units in the late 2010s, the statue was moved to face the building along Michigan Avenue. Chicago Tribune founder Robert R. McCormick, a World War I veteran who became a staunch isolationist during the lead up to World War II, came up with the idea to erect a replica of Pratt's statue in 1927. McCormick, a longtime supporter of the Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) program, which prepares students to enter the military, wanted to install a statue of an American patriot and dedicate it to younger generations, who he hoped would show the same courage as Hale. The statue was first displayed at WGN's radio studio during a special event, with a dedication and unveiling a few months later on June 4, 1940. The event was attended by tens of thousands of onlookers, with a parade of 10,000 ROTC cadets. The statue of Nathan Hale in Chicago is just one of several Pratt replicas throughout the United States, including similar statues in Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Virginia.

• I rewrote it, so hopefully it flows better. APK hi :-) (talk) 05:30, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• It does, and I like it. One recommendation:

• The replica in Chicago, installed in 1940, was created by Guido Gargani. The statue's granite base was designed by architect Leo Weissenborn. The statue was located in the Nathan Hale Courtyard, also known as the Nathan Hale Court, until the conversion of the Tribune Tower into residential units in the 2010s. Play around with this. Try something like "The Chicago replica, created by Guido Gargani and installed in 1940, stands on a granite base designed by architect Leo Weissenborn. Originally located in the Nathan Hale Courtyard, also known as Nathan Hale Court, the statue was relocated in the 2010s when the Tribune Tower was converted into residential units."

• I used your suggestion, but I can reword it if you want. Your text flows a lot better. APK hi :-) (talk) 10:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

History

Memorial plans

• Just my opinion, but I would rewrite the first paragraph, using chronological order instead. I realize that styles differ, but I've never been a fan of this reverse chronology style. It's totally up to you, but here's a simple example of what I'm talking about. Please remember it's only an example of the style that I'm talking about:

Before Robert R. McCormick, founder of the Chicago Tribune, served in the 1st Battalion, 5th Field Artillery Regiment, with the 1st Infantry Division during World War I. McCormick wanted to erect a patriotic statue in front of the Tribune Tower, the longtime home to his newspaper. He chose Nathan Hale, who was executed by the Kingdom of Great Britain, due to his courage during the American Revolutionary War as a spy for the United States, and his idea that Hale could be an admirable hero to younger generations. The idea to erect the statue came during the Colonial Revival Movement, a time when Americans admired the spirit and culture of the Thirteen Colonies. This was reflected in monuments to colonial heroes, architecture, and gardens.

After During the American Revolutionary War, Nathan Hale, a spy for the United States, was executed by the Kingdom of Great Britain in 1776. A century later, the Colonial Revival Movement emerged, a time when Americans admired the spirit and culture of the Thirteen Colonies and expressed admiration for colonial heroes like Hale, leading to the design and establishment of monuments, architecture, and gardens reflecting the Colonial Revival style throughout the country. In the early 20th century, Robert R. McCormick, founder of the Chicago Tribune, and veteran of World War I, wanted to erect a patriotic statue in front of the Tribune Tower, the home of his newspaper. McCormick, who had served in the 1st Battalion, 5th Field Artillery Regiment, with the 1st Infantry Division in WWI, believed that the courageous figure of Hale could serve as a hero to younger generations.

• Reworded. Let me know what you think. APK hi :-) (talk) 04:58, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• Looks fine. I will do a read through now.

• @APK: Beginning in 1927, McCormick led efforts to erect a patriotic statue in front of the Tribune Tower, the longtime home to his newspaper, believing Hale would be an admirable hero to younger generations. That's a mouthful! You could try splitting it up. Something similar to "Beginning in 1927, McCormick led efforts to erect a patriotic statue in front of the Tribune Tower, the longtime home to his newspaper. McCormick saw Hale as an inspiring role model for younger generations."
• The statue was planned during the lead up to World War II, which was on the minds of those involved with the statue's dedication. Permission was granted by the widow of Bela Pratt, who sculpted the original statue in 1899 for Yale University, to make a copy. This reads slightly chunky. There's many different ways to clean this up. You could try something like "The statue was planned in the years leading up to World War II, a conflict on the minds of those involved in its dedication. Permission was granted by Bela Pratt's widow to create a replica of the original 1899 statue designed for Yale University."

•  Done APK hi :-) (talk) 10:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Dedication

• A chorus of 120 students from Hirsch Metropolitan High School and Lindblom Technical High School sang Adoramus Te Christe followed by a speech from Ford. I think you can link to Adoramus Te Christe.
• An excerpt from his speech was... Not a fan of that wording, as it doesn't flow smoothly from the previous "followed by a speech from Ford". One easy way to fix it is to split it up or add it to the end, although this might not be your cup of tea; it at least shows there are alternatives. I will add the two sentences together and add the phrase to the end to illustrate: "A chorus of 120 students from Hirsch Metropolitan High School and Lindblom Technical High School sang Adoramus Te Christe followed by a speech from Ford. 'The democracy of youth passed in review today as a living tribute to the R.O.T.C., giving a reflection of the heroic youth of the past as represented by Nathan Hale, whose solemn and inspiring words are treasured by all of America as one of the noblest of lessons', Ford told the crowd."
• A local music teacher sang Recessional before the speech by McCormick, who was introduced as "the father of the R.O.T.C. in the city of Chicago", due to the longtime support of he and his newspaper to the program. McCormick, a staunch isolationist, spoke of the importance of being prepared when entering the U.S. armed forces, and how the ROTC program played a large role in this. I think there's room to make a few minor changes here. Just an example: "A local music teacher sang Recessional before the speech by McCormick, who was introduced as 'the father of the R.O.T.C. in the city of Chicago', due to his and his newspaper's longstanding support of the program. McCormick, a staunch isolationist, addressed the audience, speaking of the importance of preparedness for those entering the U.S. armed forces, highlighting the large role played by the ROTC program in achieving this readiness."

• I copied most of your suggestion, but can reword this as well if you like. My brain is fried atm.APK hi :-) (talk) 10:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Later history

•  No issues

Location and design

• I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.

• Consider linking to Nathan Hale on Wikiquote for an explication of the quote. The ideal way to do this is with an anchor on Wikiquote. I placed an anchor on that page and named it "regret": I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country. You don't have to do that, of course. But I did find it interesting to link to the quote for more info about it. Maybe that's just me!

• I didn't even know that was such a thing. I'm still learning new things after close to 17 years here. APK hi :-) (talk) 10:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

• Cool. Some people don't like to link to such a blue wall of text, so it's understandable if you don't want to do that. Still, there are inventive ways to add a link to wikiquote somewhere. Sometimes I will just add a footnote to keep the text clean.

• Inscriptions on the statue and base include:[8]

• This is the second article today that I've seen with a cite at the end of the introduction to the quote rather than at the end of the cited quotation (in this case, an inscription). Is this the new recommended style or are people just doing it according to their preferences? Just curious.

• I always add it there because in my mind it looks weird having it on the inscription lines. (front of base)[8] APK hi :-) (talk) 09:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

• Makes sense.
• @APK: I forgot to ask, I noticed this inscription is left-aligned here rather than centered, as it appears in the other statue articles. I might be missing the reason for the difference. Perhaps personal preference? Just curious.

• No reason other than I'm forgetful. :-) APK hi :-) (talk) 04:11, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• @APK: This is super minor and of little consequence, but it did catch my eye. Looking through older sources, it looks like the courtyard was originally designed by the architects as "Nathan Hale Court",[2] although I only have access to one page, the index indicates there might be more. I also notice this usage in many older articles,[3] including quite a few that refer to the interior lobby itself as "Nathan Hale Lobby". [4][5][6][7][8] I realize that your more current sources (post-2018?) refer to it as a "courtyard" and make no mention of the old lobby name. The only other thing that stands out is that there appears to have been quite a discussion about its Chicago Landmark Designation in 2018, as the interior wasn't protected by that status. This is one reason why the court and statue was apparently preserved. Some info here.[9] I just wonder if there's a larger story about the efforts to preserve the statue. I looked at the original listing of the Michigan–Wacker Historic District NRHP in 1978, but didn't find anything except for a brief mention of the building. Viriditas (talk) 00:36, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• I added content about the court and landmark info. APK hi :-) (talk) 05:01, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• His attire includes a britches, vest, long coat, and shoes adorned with large buckles. Get rid of the "a". Try "His attire includes britches, vest, long coat, and shoes adorned with large buckles.

•  Done APK hi :-) (talk) 10:48, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

References

•  Question: Any reason not to convert Chicago: A Pictorial Celebration to an Internet Archive (IA) link? It's currently a link to Google Books, which is preview only. IA gives you full access and it's easier to read. I realize it's only one page, so not a big deal.

• Cite 1ab: Checked

• I switched it. Didn't realize I could access it on IA. APK hi :-) (talk) 09:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

• Cite 2abcdefghij: Checked

• 2a: I don't see anything about Colonial Revival gardens in Young 2016, although the material on p. 975 alludes to it. I don't think this is a problem because the gardens are indeed an example of the style they are talking about ("the heyday of the 'Colonial Revival' when all things early American were the rage"). But it does raise the question of how to handle this kind of thing, and it's something I've been trying to figure out in my own articles. Personally, I think it is perfectly fine to mention the gardens based on what Young is talking about. You're simply illustrating the style described in the source with an example. But the question of text-source integrity might be raised by someone else. I wonder if there's an additional source you can add to show the relationship. It's such a minor, inconsequential matter that I would recommend doing nothing, but one often comes across people who think otherwise.

• I went ahead and removed the garden bit. APK hi :-) (talk) 04:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• 2b: If I'm reading this correctly, 2b should be placed at the end of the first sentence in that paragraph ("involved with the statue's dedication"), not at the end of the second where it currently appears ("to make a copy"). See p. 974 in Young 2016. On the other hand, I suppose it makes sense to put it there if both 2b and 3a support the same material. Just checking.

• Added an additional ref. APK hi :-) (talk) 04:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• 2c: Checked
• 2d: Checked
• 2e: Checked
• 2f: It was apparent to many in the crowd that day, the U.S. would soon be drawn into another war. This did not stop the festivities though.. This has me a bit confused. Are you referring to the festivities of February 22 or June 4? As far as I can tell you are referring to June 4, but I'm not really seeing that bit in the source. Perhaps I'm missing it, or it's just a loose paraphrase that could be tightened up a bit? I do see "As Chicagoans gathered on a beautiful late morning and early afternoon on 4 June to celebrate the officer training program in the area high schools, and to dedicate the Nathan Hale statue, it was jarring to consider that the world was indeed a dangerous place" as well as "The menacing events in Europe...added poignancy to the spectacle of seeing the young men who would fight the German war machine in the next armed conflict that was certain to come...no matter how hard the "Colonel of Chicago" tried to stop it", but that must be referring to something else?

• Reworded for clarity (I think). APK hi :-) (talk) 04:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

• 2g: Checked
• 2h: Checked
• 2i: Checked
• 2j: Checked

• Cite 3ab:CY AGF, no access to paywalled source
• Cite 4abcdefghi:CY AGF, no access to paywalled source
• Cite 5: Checked
• Cite 6: Checked
• Cite 7ab: Checked
• Cite 8ab: Checked
• Cite 9: Checked

• Citation 9 has the wrong SIRIS title. This is easy to overlook. Citation 9 should be titled "Captain Nathan Hale, (sculpture)" not "Nathan Hale, (sculpture)". If you compare 8 and 9 it will make sense.

• Good catch. APK hi :-) (talk) 10:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Images

•  No issues

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.