Talk:Stan Rogers/Archive 1

Archive 1

Rewrite

Editors to this page will notice that the recent diffs have a lot of red. This is NOT because information has been deleted, but because it has been reorganized quite a bit, and some new things added. This is in preparation for a major expansion and rewrite of the article that I am preparing to undertake. Please bear with me and help out if you can. Right now it still reads fairly roughly, mostly because there are major gaps that need to be filled. However, despite the fact that it may take some time, the eventual goal is to get the article up to featured article status. Let's go for it. You may have noticed some recent edits by an anon user 24.226.10.99 - this is Ariel Rogers, who should be an invaluable resource for fact-checking as we go, and who has kindly agreed to help find a suitable image... Regards, Fawcett5 18:57, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

"investiturial"??

Do you realize it appears you are the only person in the world (wide web) to use/invent this word? A truly amazing accomplishment! Iamusingwiki (talk) 23:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Plane crash and circumstances of death

I am currently reading ... i guess its a biography on Stan Rogers, called "An Unfinished Conversation" by Chris Gudgeon. It talks in detail about the fire aboard flight 797, but it says nothing about him helping other passengers out of the plane. I removed the sentence saying he did, unless someone can prove from a reliable source that it's true. SECProto 03:03, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree that the focus should be on Stan Rogers music, not on the manner of his death. I'm the one who added in the part that some "reports at the time" said that he stayed on to help others, the reason I did it was that a previous writer put in information that he died of smoke inhalation, so it seemed relevant. Note that I did not outright state that he helped, only that reports at the time said that he helped. My basis for putting it in was (1) I remember it being a common belief around the time of his death and (2) in the cited obituary that I added to the article earlier, his mother is reported as saying that she was told that he helped others off the plane. Double hearsay, and maybe someone was trying to comfort her, but that's what I have.

Based on a story from the June 4, 1983 issue of the Boston Globe, "Fire may have begun in rear lavatory," this is what I can reliably report: The fire started in the back of the plane about fifteen minutes before the pilot was able to land, and the cabin started to fill up with smoke. According to passenger Roy Grubbs of Waxahachie, Texas, after the plane landed flames shot through the cabin "like lighting a fuse on a firecracker." All those who died were dead within 60 seconds of the landing: apparently when they opened the doors to get out the oxygen rushing in caused the fire to flare up as Grubbs described. Airport staff credited the crew with saving the the 18 passengers who survived(all 5 crew members also survived), but the airport staff weren't on the plane, and it doesn't say that people on the plane didn't also try to help each other. Given the speed of the fire, it is quite believable that Rogers could have died as a result of something as simple as hanging toward the back of the line to keep an eye on a frail person when he normally would have been toward the front of the line due to where he was sitting-- that would count as staying to help in my book.

In NPR's "Weekend Edition," August 5, 2000, Rogers' producer Paul Mills says that there is a "persistant rumor" that Rogers got out and then went back in to save people, but that he doesn't know if that is true. That story seems less likely to me, given the report in the Boston Globe. I say, leave the reference in if you are going to have more than the most basic mention of the accident, and go with what his mother reportedly said, that he could have gotten off but stayed to help other people get out. Ideally, where to put all this exposition could be solved through the magic of hyperlinks by having a separate article on the crash of Flight 797, leaving this article for discussion of Rogers' work. Crypticfirefly 04:17, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

And as rumour, it's unfit to be included in an encyclopedia article. If the people who died were killed in a flash fire when the doors were opened, that doesn't leave time for Rogers to yell or guide. I believe that it's a folk myth that has grown up because we like him. And that includes his mother. It's only one step from "It would be just like him to..." to "He did...." I recommend removing mention of this heroic act, at least until we get some eye-witness accounts or official reports that mention it. Newspapers don't really count as they say what's interesting, not what's accurate, and gladly report rumours. Monado 14:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The circumstance surrounding his death are important. This is a biographical article about a musician. Yes, his music is the main important feature, because it's the reason he gets a bio page at all, but that his death was not from natural causes and the actual causes should be mentioned. The section on his death isn't all that long, and simply states how he died and how he was laid to rest. I think this is reasonably acceptable for this biographical article.

As for his heroic return and thus the ultimate cause of his death. A Mayday episode aired on the Discovery Channel regarding the Air Canada Flight 797 showed the positions of the passengers who parished on the aircraft. It also showed that there was no way anyone could have returned into the aircraft before the fire had fully engulfed the aircraft. The reality is clear that he did not leave and return into the aircraft. And therefor the rumour should not even be mentioned, unless the debunking of that rumour also be stated. Brendan OhUiginn (talk) 05:51, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I was told personally, by the widow of Allen Wayne Damron (http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/statesman/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=14852226), both apparently close personal friends of Rogers (she says she still has Rogers's guitar), that he had been helping passengers to leave the plane (as opposed to returning to the plane). She states this with absolute conviction, and was apparently very familiar with the circumstances at the time. So I'd say if this is "just" a rumor, it has a little more weight than most. However, I agree that a mention in this article would only be appropriate if there were clear supporting evidence. Since people close to Rogers believe this as fact, I wonder if there might have been direct statements made by firefighters, investigators, etc. that didn't make it into the printed record. However, strongly-held beliefs by knowledgeable parties don't tip the scale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.50.8.154 (talk) 22:15, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

So you say. Trouble is what or who is her source? Are we to accept on faith that this was actually said to her and is verifiable? And how are we to verify that you actually spoke to her and that she actually said what you claim she did in the manner you say? Answer? Not to sound like a snark but we can't (at least at this point). As much as I'd like to believe the claim true, it's clear at this point that the story is an apocryphal one in the same manner that various utterances were attributed to Sir Isaac Brock after he'd been shot in the chest at the Battle of Queenston Heights. As Monado pointed out more than 5 years ago, it's unsubstantiated-by-checkable-citation "folk myth". Until and unless someone comes up with a verifiable citation by an eyewitness or in an official document, this rumour should be removed whenever it is added to this entry.  Natty10000 | Natter  14:37, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

MedicAlert bracelet

I noticed in several pictures of Stan Rogers that he appears to be wearing a MedicAlert bracelet. Does anyone know what condition he had and would a mention of it in the main article be merited? 124.177.180.71 (talk) 00:05, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Photo

There seem to be hundreds of photos of Rogers all over the web. Can one be found to go with this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.95.43.249 (talk) 23:59, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Cremation

"Rogers was one of the passengers still on the plane at the time of the fire. His ashes were scattered..." reads, unfortunately, as though he was burned to ashes on the plane, and scattered from there. Can anyone add details of where and when his actual cremation took place? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:30, 30 March 2018 (UTC)