Talk:Srednja Vas–Goriče

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Spaced hyphen

This is the only case of a place in Slovenia with a double name written in original (Slovene) with a spaced hyphen (per SURS, Geopedia.si - source: Geodetic Institute of Slovenia). --Eleassar ^{my talk} 07:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect it's simply a mistake. In my experience it's rare for Slovenian authors to completely consistently distinguish between Xxx-Yyy, Xxx–Yyy, Xxx - Yyy, and Xxx – Yyy. (For example, Savnik, KLS I, 1968, unintentionally has both Kal-Koritnica and Kal - Koritnica, both Križišce-Puče and Križišče—Puče, both Zadlaz-Čadrg and Zadlaz - Čadrg, and both Zadlaz-Žabče and Zadlaz - Žabče all in the same volume.) Doremo (talk) 08:41, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly. According to [1], the dictionary Slovenska krajevna imena contains it written as Srednja vas-Goriče (I unfortunately don't have it at my hand) and I don't see a reason why in this case it would be different than in other cases, like e.g. Srednja vas-Poljane. However, it should be determined who decides on official names of places in Slovenia - is it the Geodetic Institute or someone else - and what is the official name. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 08:49, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

According to the relevant act[2], the official name of the settlement is written in the Registry of Spatial Units,[3] maintained by the Surveying and Mapping Authority of the Republic of Slovenia. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 09:04, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The printed version of Slovenska krajevna imena (1985, page 268) has Srédnja vás-Goríče, the same as all the other hyphenated forms. Doremo (talk) 09:05, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We should cite the official name from the Registry, however it is not freely available. SURS cites it as the source of their information that the name should be written with a spaced hyphen.[4] The same spelling is given in the Statute of the City Municipality of Kranj (Article 1).[5] Per the relevant act (Article 10),[6] the name is decided by the municipality. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 09:08, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Statute of the Municipality of Loški Potok (Article 1) [7] also has Srednja vas - Loški Potok. On the other hand, maybe the spaced hyphen forms are the correct Slovene forms: SP2001 (§ 427) specifies Šmarje - Sap and Videm - Dobropolje because both elements are declined ("med deloma dvojnega imena, ko se obe imeni pregibljeta") (e.g., od Šmarja - Sapa, v Vidmu - Dobrepolju); by that logic, the Slovene form should be Srednja vas - Goriče (e.g., v Srednji vasi - Goričah). In any case, all of this is only relevant for citing the native form of the name. Doremo (talk) 09:36, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The 1962 Pravopis (§ 95) stipulates Šmarje-Sap, Videm-Krško, etc., so Slovene sources will also vary if they followed the official linguistic norms in effect at a particular time. Doremo (talk) 09:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

... which is essential information. Otherwise, I agree. The Statute of the Municipality of Grosuplje also contains the name Šmarje - Sap, written with a spaced hyphen.[8] Even SURS, which lists this settlement as Šmarje-Sap (unspaced hyphen), cites in the description of its territorial changes its name as Šmarje - Sap (spaced hyphen).[9] There's no place named Videm - Dobrepolje or Videm - Krško (it's only Videm); it is possible that these names were used in the past. Another source, based on the dictionary Slovene Place Names, is the publication Toponimska navodila za Slovenijo ("Toponimic Guidelines for Slovenia"),[10] which spells the names Šmarje-Sap, Hrastje-Mota, Zadlaz-Čadrg, Pince-Marof. Besides some information on how to inflect these names, it states only that a hyphen should be used and doesn't explicitely discuss whether it should be spaced or not. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 10:04, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Adendum: these municipal statutes seem to not be very consistent. The Municipal Statute of Radenci contains the name Hrastje Mota (without a hyphen),[11] the Municipal Statute of Tolmin contains the names Zadlaz-Čadrg with both spaced and unspaced hyphen [12]... I think that the reliable source for official names of settlements in Slovenia still remains the Registry of Spatial Units, per the relevant act (Article 4):[13] "The data about areas and names of settlements and about designations of buildings are used when they are written in the registry of spatial units..." and the rest of the article. Currently, the only known freely available source citing information from the registry is SURS. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 10:17, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be happy to use either format (either Srednja vas - Poljane per SP2001 or Srednja vas-Poljane per SURS/SP1962) when citing the native name forms for the sake of consistency. (I don't know what SP1989 stipulated.) But I'd prefer that a native Slovene speaker choose which of these formats to use. Doremo (talk) 10:57, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

All sourced names can be cited in the lead, although it should be clearly stated which name is official and should be used (except in historical context), because thus it is also the commonest. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 11:46, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]