Talk:Sports video game/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
First Draft Structure Outline
I'll do a quick pitch on proposed structure for the article -- see what you guys think. The way I like best on first blush is to make the article hierarchical sorted by sport, based on the following outline:
Sport (e.g. Auto Racing, Football) If the individual sports sections get too big we could break them out into separate articles and then have a See Main Article: Football Games' line
- Note re History: I'm assuming that each sport's sub-section will have a concise history section for that sport, so the top-level history section will talk about trenbds like different kinds of graphic displays, the arrival and prominence of licenses, emergence of categories like extreme sports and street sports, Japanese vs. North American/European style sports games, etc. I can see counter-arguments to this approiach, however. I've messed with the outline below some based on this morning's posts by other editors. Please modify, expunge or build on as part of the discussion. Coll7 22:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
- History
- Early gaming
- 1970-78 on mainframes
- 1978-85 Early coin-ops and consoles (Atari vs. Intellivision)
- Arcade-style sports games come into the fold
- 1985-95 -- Madden Football, Earl Weaver Baseball, EA
- The EA Sports era
- NBA Jam, Arch Rivals, Basebal Simulator 1000
- 1995-2005 -- Extreme sports come into the fold (pioneered by California games)
- The skateboard game and its impact on other titles
- EA Reacts- EA sports BIG
- Street Sports emerges as category
- 2000-2005 -- EA Sports, 2K Games & Exclusivity
- Early gaming
- Enough history to get an idea of how the genres developed, but not a list of every baseball game on the market in 1996.
- Principal Game Types
- Coin-op
- Consoles
- Graphic arcade style
- Graphic sim
- Button mashing games
- Track and Field
- PC
- Graphic arcade style
- Graphic sim
- Text sim
- Management sim
- Handhelds
Starting list of sports (bet I leave out an important one), (now separated into team sports and individual sports Coll7 23:57, 10 January 2006 (UTC)):
- TEAM SPORTS
- Baseball
- Basketball
- NBA
- NCAA
- "Street ball"
- Cricket
- Football (American)
- NFL
- ESPN NFL Football (NFL 2K series)
- Madden NFL
- Tecmo Super Bowl
- Arena (there is at least one of these for XBOX)
- XFL
- NCAA
- Football (Australian)
- Hockey
- Rugby
- Soccer
- Volleyball
- INDIVIDUAL SPORTS
- Vehicle Racing
- Auto Racing
- NASCAR
- NASCAR Thunder
- Motorcycle Racing
- I forget what it was supercross or somethign? EA made it
- Motocross <- racing game
- Boat Racing
- ATV Racing
- Snowmobile Racing
- Jet-ski Racing
- BMX (biking) <- racing game
- Billiards/Pool (?)
- Bowling
- Boxing
- Darts
- Fishing
- Golf
- Links 386 Golf
- Golden Tee
- PGA
- Other (Outlaw Golf, HotShots Golf, etc.)
- Horse Racing <- typically only in gambling games, although some games such as Quarterpole exist
- Hunting <- sport? I dunno, it's a stretch
- Inline Skating
- Karate (tournament style)
- Paintball <- first person shooter
- Pinball <- NOT A sport
- Poker
- Skatebording
- Skiing, Snowboarding
- Winter Olympics
- Surfing
- Tennis
- Track and Field
- World Class Track Meet
- Hyper Olympics
- Crash and the Boys Street Challenge
- Summer Olympics
- "Ultimate" fighting
- UFC Fighting Championship (Dreamcast)
- Wakeboarding
- that Tony Hawk like game
- Wrestling (this would have to be olympic wrestling, pro wrestling is definately not a sport IMO)
That should start the discussion! Coll7 18:28, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
So far so good - I am open to ANY ideas on this and other similar articles, because I have never really worked on this type of game genre article extensively. I'm sure some others can come up with some more suggestions to add to this good start you have made. I'm going to go ahead and add "Volleyball," "Bowling, "BMX (biking)," "Surfing," "Horse Racing," "Pinball," "Wrestling," "InlineSkating," "Rugby," "Skateboarding," "Paintball," "Wakeboarding," "Tennis," "Fishing," "Hunting," and "Casinio," to the above list.
The last three (and maybe some of the others) are debatable I guess, but XBOX.com classifies all of the categories I added as "Sports" (and incidently has made at least one of each of the ones I added). I also broke up the American Football Category to NFL and Arena. I don't know if there is Arena Football outside the U.S.? I also broke up the Basketball category into NBA and NCAA. Same for Golf. There may be more Football/Basketball affilations than the ones here ..but I'm just listing what I know exists. The other sports may or may not have "divisions" that the categories can be split up to.
I know I added A LOT. Some of these things can probably be divided up even further ..like dumping a bunch of them in "Water Sports" Thoughts? --Naha|(talk) 20:02, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Playstation.com also classifies some of its game into "Extreme Sports." (I'm assuming stuff like Skateboarding/Snowboarding/Inline Skating/Motercross - but Snowboarding also can fit into a "Winter Sports" Category ..bleh. I can't find a way to search through Playstation's entire game list though ..look at all games in x-genre like I can on Xbox.com. --Naha|(talk) 20:11, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
P.P.S. Apparently there is a "street game" version game out there of just about every major sport. I've browsed Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo games thus far. Typically I just think of street basketball when it comes to street versions of video games... but they are all there ..even "Freestyle Street Soccer" for Gamecube --Naha|(talk) 20:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I added some more and rearranged a little in the history section outline, based on today's posts. Please build on or modify what I scribbled. Coll7 22:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Formatted, fixed titles and added a few. I think racing games need to be left in the Racing games article, with just a brief mention and a main article link here. I don't think paintball, pinball, or poker should be covered in this article either. There's a couple others I'm on the fence about. --Pagrashtak 02:23, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- My two cents: Whenever a main article exists, as with racing games, I agree that a See Main Article: cross-reference is far better than an abridged rehash. I believe pinball games and gambling games are separate categories (worthy of their own articles), and should not be in sports despite the latter's prominence on ESPN. A case could also be made for separating Extreme Sports Games from Sports Games and then pointing to that article as well. Coll7 02:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
- I have just finished some fairly major restructuring and I thought I'd share my rationale. I first broke the types of game down into three categories each defined by the style of video game play that they provide. "Team sports" video games (many vs. one -or- many vs. many) are those in which you can often control any member of the team and you are in direct competition with the computer or your opponent friend. "Versus Sports" video games (one vs. one) are those in which you can only control one person/vehicle/etc and you are in direct competition with the computer or your opponent friend. Finally, "General Competition" video games (one vs. many -or- one vs. none) are those in which you can only control one person/vehicle/etc and you are in competition with the environement or indirectly with the computer or your opponent friend. Other than these three major categories, I tried to lump together some of the more obvious categories as can be seen in the article. There is slight overlap in some areas for instance I classified Paintball as a target sport and I can see how some Racing sports might fall under the Versus Sports category, but these are just some of the wrinkles still to be ironed out. I also had a bit of trouble with games like Coleco Telstar Marksman which is essentially a collection of Racquet and Target sports in one system. In general collections like this (or for example the California Games series) are hard to place and I've tended to put them under Olympic/Event games. I'm not convinced this is the best place for them, but my rationale was that as with the Olympic games, there are many events all in one cohesive package. I personally find these types of sports games to be about the most fascinating as they are often the only places where some of the more obscure sports can be found. --Thibbs 01:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Next Steps
id reccomend we start assembling the lists of important historical games and at least 3 example games of each sport. This will help alot with next weeks GCOTW, as i think we should focus mostly on developing a good history and genre overview sections. We should also include how gaming has impacted proffessional sports (it has taken away from ratings). and can mention things like the Madden curse. --Larsinio 21:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
What is a sport?
Larsinio, thanks for your comments. As I have already stated, all the companies who produce these games have classified them as "Sports" Genre. I don't know what other classification system to use. It seems to make more sense to use the one set forth by Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo and others in the bussiness than for us to decide what is and is not a sport, which is basically pesonal opinion. They show poker and horse racing on ESPN btw. At least using an already-in-place structure would keep us away from editor bias /shrug.
The only one I really see that can go of the ones you mentioned is Paintball (although either Xbox or Playstation, I can't remember which, throws it in their sports category) And yes ..I did ask for commentary on my additions to the list ..not trying to sound defensive, just trying to ration out what we should do :P --Naha|(talk) 21:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Another comment. I see you listed "racing" besides BMX biking. I was under the impression that not all BMX biking was racing, and much of it was the competition of doing different stunts in the air etc. Can anyone clairfy this? --Naha|(talk) 21:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
- Horse racing if youre the one racing or managing a horse is the sport. If youre gambling on who is winning, i think thats a gambling video game. Theres articles on Online poker and Online casino, which i think we should redirect. Gambling video game should really be a cvg genre in its own right. Gambling, while shown on espn, is also shown on the gameshow network. Does that mean the 100,000$ pyramid is a sport? Probably not. Gotta draw the line somewhere. It is only a recent pop culture phenonema that views poker as a sport, it has not been the traditional view. Is solitaire a sport? Its a card game as is poker...so it could be You see my point. My view is that if the game involves waying strategies against certain payoff rewards utilizing game theory, then its a gambling game not a sport. I think we can include a blurb about game companies classify 5this in light of the changing public perception on gambling and so on, but they should see gambling video game for more information. --Larsinio 21:35, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I can agree with that but the point is a bit weak; People don't compete at Solitare, the do compete at Poker, and I think that is part of it. Competition is a large part of sporting. Poker has always been big, the recent phenonema is mainly Texas Hold 'Em ..and I still can't figure out why that game took over the poker world. It really boggles my mind. Also, Poker is listed on List of sports /shrug. We should, as you say, at the very least have a small paragraph or so on Poker and then provide links to Gambling video game or something similar as noted.
As far as Horse Racing goes, I guess we will have to check into the individual games and see what the player actually does: Betting or are they the Jockey? or something else? Maybe a combination. --Naha|(talk) 21:49, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I love that definition for sports and the examples Brittany Bowley (talk) 11:03, 13 November 2016 (UTC)
Organize by year or by sport?
As I see the article start to take shape I'm wondering whether the present chronological flow with sports all intermixed is best, or whether we should give a sub-head to each sport and then trace the evolution of its sports games over time. That would put all the football games together, etc. and may make the evolution easier to follow. We could then have meta-topics (as now) on things like extreme sports' entrance, exclusivity, graphical innovation, simulation vs. arcade etc. Thoughts? Coll7 21:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- I say by sport. Then there can be a history section, which picks out a few notable games from each era of the Sports game genre to focus on. --Naha|(talk) 22:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- Yea i agree. If it gets developed enough they coudl spin off into sub artciles like Football video game or something. Also we need to mention Sports management games, as they're pretty important part of sports gaming. Sports management games pretty much involved into fantasy leagues. --Larsinio 22:36, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
"Games and Televised Sports"
Recently several studies have come out that state that the drop in ratings of profeessional sports is directly linked to the rise of popularity of the video game versions of those same sports.
The misspelling of "professional" aside, if you're going to refer to conclusions drawn in "several studies", you should provide links to those studies. I added the unreferenced tag since I couldn't find any information myself. Oh, and if there's a section version of the "unreferenced" template, please replace the current notice with that.TaintedMustard 16:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
- It's been almost two weeks and still no source. I've removed the claim.
- Recently several studies have come out that state that the drop in ratings of profeessional sports is directly linked to the rise of popularity of the video game versions of those same sports.
Wrestling
Why isn't wrestling on this list. It is 'SPORT entertainment or you could put at least put Puroseou games on it because thats the close professional wrestling is to a sport
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Team Sports subcategories
I suggest that all Team Sports should be subdivided in teh same manner that, for example, Football is. Just as Football games are divided into NFL, AFL, XFL, NCAA, Australian, and Other we should do this for all Team Sports and certain more mainstream Individual sports (eg. Racing, Golf, Tennis, etc).
For Team Sports I would suggest the following subdivisions, but I'm no expert so someone with more sports knowledge should attempt this:
- Baseball – divided into MLB (A.L. and N.L.), Minor League, Independent League, Winter League, and the IL.
- Cricket – divided into ICC, ACC, ECC, ACA, Americas Cricket, and the EAPCC
- Dodgeball – divided into IDF, NDL, and NDA
- Ice Hockey – divided into NHL, WHA, and Olympic
- Lacrosse – divided into NLL, MLL, ELF, and ILF
- Rugby – divided into RFU, RFL, IRB, IRFU, etc.
- Soccer – divided into MLS, FIFA, AFC, etc.
- Volleyball – divided into FIVB, Olympic, Beach
Thibbs 00:25, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
- The ESPN breakdown,TSN breakdown, and other similar sports network breakdowns would actually probably be better suggestions for breakdowns here than my suggestions above.Thibbs 00:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
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Hunting and fishing
I deleted hunting and fishing games. I don't think they can be regarded as sports. Maybe another page should be created for them? Fletcherjlynd (talk) 15:48, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Where's Epyx?
Including their all-time classic titles Summer Games and Winter Games. JAF1970 (talk) 17:46, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Notable sports games by type of sport
I want to propose a removal of this section. It seems to show bias towards certain games and I can't see people using it as a useful resource. In its place, I propose that we make List of Football (soccer) video games, List of Badminton video games etc and place a list of them on List of Sports video games by sport. That way we allow people to easily navigate Sports related games and get rid of this garish and unnecessary section. Greg Tyler (t • c) 12:05, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
I've withdrawn these comments as I now believe that the Category:Sports video games easily accommodates a navigation system, making lists unnecessary. Greg Tyler (t • c) 19:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
- We can use the information on Category:Sports video games as a base to create a Chronology of sport video games page. Tavatar (talk) 19:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
board games
so where do board games such as Start-O-Matic and Statis Pro, which predate electronic and video games, fit into this schema? 165.91.65.11 (talk) 22:32, 2 October 2011 (UTC)RKH
Mario and Sonic
'...Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games, the first official title to feature both Mario and Sonic the Hedgehog...'
No, that was Super Smash Bros. Brawl.
2.96.115.125 (talk) 11:44, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
Simulation?
I've seen a number of more recent Sports (video) games which more and more simulate real sports, but is it fair to call all sports games a simulation? I've worked on industrial process simulators which duplicate the real environment exactly (with the addition of an instructor console and simulated processes instead of real) - which is to say that I believe there is a difference between a "simulation" and a "video game". I would tend to put "games" like MS Flight Simulator and XPlane in the category of "simulator"/"simulation" (rather than video game), and games like World of Tanks in the category of video game (rather than simulation). In my mind, a simulation puts the user into the actual "chair" of the "operator" as if in the real environment. I think it's fair to say "A sports game is a video game that simulates the practice of traditional sports.", but not necessarily (and I'm paraphrasing/linking) "Sports game; Part of a series on: Simulation video games" as not all sports games, (though increasingly more-so) are what I would call simulations. Comments? Jarod (talk) 16:04, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Rename or refocus
This article should either be renamed to sport videogames (term used for example in [1]) or refocused to discuss non-video sport games, as in board (tabletop) games, such as oh, for example, non-video Bloodbowl and thousands others. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:45, 3 March 2016 (UTC)