Talk:Sport in Vatican City

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by US Referee talk 00:49, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that sport in Vatican City started in the 1st century, when a chariot racing track was built in what was then ancient Rome?

• Source: [1] [2]

• ALT1: ... that in the aftermath of World War II, sport in Vatican City was encouraged by Pope Pius XII? Source: [3]
• Reviewed:

5x expanded by Arconning (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Arconning (talk) 09:24, 28 June 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - See comment
• Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Source 1 doesn't seem to mention the facts in the hook, and the second source seems somewhat partisan and I'm somewhat suspicious of the quality of an article starting with "Did You Know". Does the academic source mentioned in the same paragraph in this article ([4]) mention it in any way? That would be much better. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 06:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

• • @Flemmish Nietzsche: Sadly, the academic source doesn't back the claim up but it does back up the claim that an area in the Vatican was once a chariot racing track. Though I'm not sure what's Wikipedia's and the DYK's policy on "possibly statements" (i.e. ...that sport in Vatican City possibly started in the 1st century, when a chariot racing track was built in what was then ancient Rome?" I suggest using ALT1 instead if that's the case. Though I can make another hook if it isn't interesting enough. Arconning (talk) 06:27, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@Arconning I checked that journal I suggested, fand you're right about it not being definite that the chariot track ever actually existed there. ALT1 is not the most interesting, but I could accept it if there's nothing else better you can find. How about "... that sport in Vatican City began in the 16th century with the first ever match of calcio fiorentino, an early form of football?" This might not be the "start" of sport in the area that is now the Vatican, but it seems to be the first major event when that area was under the control of an independent Papal State, so I think it would pass. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 07:28, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@Flemmish Nietzsche For the hook that you suggested, I'm all for it but with some minor tweaks. Since we can't really determine when sport in Vatican City really started, I think we should put something like "governed by the nation", "started by the nation", or something shorter. (i.e. ... that sport in Vatican City started by the nation began in the 16th century with the first ever match of calcio fiorentino, an early form of football?"). Arconning (talk) 07:38, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@Arconning "started by the nation" seems somewhat iffy, as it could be confused with "nation" meaning a group of people sharing a common identity rather than a sovereign state; maybe "state-sponsored" or "officially" would be better? (... that state-sponsored sport in Vatican City began in the 16th century with the first ever match of calcio fiorentino, an early form of football?") Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 07:45, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@Flemmish Nietzsche "Officially" works fine with me. Arconning (talk) 07:49, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

ALT2: ... that sport in Vatican City officially began in the 16th century with the first ever match of calcio fiorentino, an early form of football?" Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 07:59, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

• Unpromoted per discussion at WT:DYK, pending selection of a better hook. RoySmith (talk) 22:07, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
• Bringing over some suggestions from WT:DYK:
  • ALT3: ... that sport in Vatican City has included chariot racing, calcio fiorentino, and taekwondo?
  • ALT4: ... that sport in Vatican City has been seen as a way to express Catholic spirituality and principles?
  • ALT5: ... that although sport in Vatican City has been seen as a way to express Catholic spirituality and principles, the church opposed the participation of women?

@Flemmish Nietzsche: As the original reviewer, can you review the above hooks? Thanks. Z1720 (talk) 04:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

ALT3 seems mostly good, although it would be best to include only sports played explicitly when the Vatican was independent; swapping out chariot racing for cricket would ensure that and proper sourcing for all claims. "... that sport in Vatican City has included cricket, calcio fiorentino, and taekwondo?" ALT4 and ALT5 don't seem very interesting or surprising; I would expect the Catholic church to desire to "express Catholic spirituality and principles" and to have somewhat of a bias against women. @Arconning: do you agree with the proposed change to ALT3? Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 15:02, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

@Flemmish Nietzsche Yep, seems good. Arconning (talk) 15:06, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Sport in Vatican City/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Arconning (talk · contribs) 09:14, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Pbritti (talk · contribs) 23:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello! I'll review this article. This looks like a fun topic, so I'm in! I'll get some reviewing done in the next 12 hours, with a goal to wrap this up by the end of next weekend. ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:39, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Preliminary review

Sorry, got distracted. Commencing my initial review, which will look at copyright, comprehensiveness, and cohesion. ~ Pbritti (talk) 16:46, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

• Lead is generally sound and sufficient to provide a broad overview of the subject for a general audience.
• Only exception to this quality is the description of Vatican Athletics. My understanding is that describing it as an unofficial Olympic Committee is inaccurate, seeing as it's not presently affiliated with the Olympics and does appear to have official approval from the Holy See. I'd encourage slightly more detail on Vatican Athletics, noting that it is a fairly new entity.
  • Removed the claim. The claim of it being a fairly new entity might be outdated soon so I wont put it now. Although upon further request, I'll put it.
• Attitude towards sports: While I can appreciate that brevity is necessary, it's probably worthwhile adding that other recent popes have been intimately involved in sports. John Paul II was an athlete in his youth, so consider using this document as a launching point for maybe an additional paragraph.
• There is substantial overlinking of things like the 2024 Summer Olympics and linking of country names that do not require links
  •  Done, removed the extra linking instances of 2024 Olys and removed most of the country name wikilinks (besides the important ones such as the national football team for San Marino).
• When naming things like Campo Pio XI, consider providing a short description. I'm a Catholic with friends who have studied in Rome and I was still a bit hazy remembering exactly the role and location of that facility.
  •  Done Added the short description for it, could you provide the "things" that should have descriptions?
• I'm not presently aware of any significant examples, but has sport ever been frowned upon by the Vatican (recently or historically)? If so, a single sentence might be worth inclusion.
  • Not really.
• Images are all public domain or free to use. The picture of the pope spinning a basketball on a pencil is rad and absolutely deserves its place at the top of the article; we rarely get cool images like that available for use on the project.
  • Thank you!

Ok, these are some very preliminary comments just to kick things off. Let me know if you have any questions. I'll come back soon to do a source review. ~ Pbritti (talk) 17:06, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Pbritti Could you provide the things that require short descriptions? I have no clue lol Arconning (talk) 13:06, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

I apologize, as I was speaking in generalities. I didn't see any specific examples of similar issues in this article. Thanks for the fixes! Working on a source review right now! ~ Pbritti (talk) 13:31, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

@Pbritti I've done the paragraph, as well as the rest of your comments. :) Arconning (talk) 06:56, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Source review

• Regarding the 2018 Winter Games, the Pope's full comments were "reminds us that, despite our differences, we are all members of the same human family". A heading in the cited reference contains the shorter version present in the article, but this shorter version isn't the Pope's words.
  •  Done, replaced.
• I didn't see a citation that verified While the women's team first match was against AS Roma, losing to a score of 0–10. It's also a sentence fragment. This can be remedied by removing word "While".
  •  Done.
• Although not prohibiting the sport, the nation stated: "athletic activities by women surely had their hygienic function, but harmful excesses needed to be curbed". This is incorrect. While the quoted phrase appears in Vanysacker 2015 on page 808, it is not a direct quote from a Vatican document or official. Instead, it is Vanysacker's summarization of Vatican perspectives. Additionally, this source heavily emphasizes the role of John Paul II; I again encourage you to provide a sentence on his role in elevating Vatican appreciation for sport.
  •  Done, removed. Will add a paragraph including his role in Vatican sport.
• A nitpick, but for this source, Choue Chung-Won is described as present at the ceremony but not as directly awarding Francis the 10th dan black belt. I'm also a bit wavering on whether this constitutes RECENTISM, but not nearly to a degree worthy of consideration in a GA. Just a thought for if you take it this to PR or FA.
  •  Done, removed. Wrote the paragraph about John Paul II's role in Vatican sport.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Compare the section in Vatican City

Vatican Amateur Sports Association doesn't appear to be mentioned in this article? Yngvadottir (talk) 22:44, 18 August 2024 (UTC)