Talk:Spanish irredentism

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Existence of the Spanish irredentism

There is no Spanish irredentism, it is a invention or an article created with sole purpose to enlarge the template Irredentism. Not all the nationalisms have to have irredentism. As we can see in es:Nacionalismo español article, Spanish nationalism isn't in any way irredentist, the only real and cultural claim of Spanish nationalism is Gibraltar. That's all.

The Iberian Federalism was more a conversation among a small circle of intellectuals, which has never become mainstream, even most of Spanish and Portugal people doesn't even know such ideas.

It is also false that the Spanish nationalism claims the regions of French Basque Country, Roussillon, Cerdagne and also Andorra. There are claims of the separatist political movement of Spain, being French Basque Country a claim of the Basque Country, and Roussillon, Cerdagne and also Andorra a claim of the catalan nationalism of pan-catalanism, which are opposed to Spanish nationalism and Spain. That irredentism movement comes from the separatists.

The claims of these regions by Falange during the war are not relevant and not even known from the Spanish people.

There has been irredentism movement in the world like in Germany which lead to wars (Pan-germanism), movement in Italy to enlarge his territories like in Netherlands, the common point of all of then is the wish to reunite all the regions which speak the same language in one big cultural nation. Spanish language is only spoken in Europe in Spain, so there is no regions nor countries to annexe, the only one being the small territory of Gibraltar. Not all the nationalism are irredentist.

I suggest the deletion of this article. --Living001 (talk) 19:17, 30 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The sources account for the content. Multiple sources demonstrate that Spanish irredentism has existed. There have been those who have claimed only Gibraltar, there have been others that have claimed Portugal and other territories. The fact that you may not like this does not change that reality. And the popularity of the concept is irrelevant as to whether it existed that is confirmed. The fact is that the Carlists and the Falange were major factions on the Nationalist side of the Spanish Civil War, and that they called for incorporation of Portugal, is very significant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.192.213 (talk) 00:48, 13 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Franco & Portugal etc

My removal of this recent addition has been reverted. However, p129 of the book, which is being used a reference here, says nothing about the Spanish government or Franco negotiating with Germany over the annexation of Portugal or indeed anywhere else. It is discussing works written by, and conversations among, individual Spanish nationalists. If the IP wants it to stay, they will need to explain something that I have obviously missed. N-HH talk/edits 17:52, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Preston. Franco: a biography. BasicBooks, a division of HarperCollins, 1994. Pp. 857. - mentions communique between Franco's Spain and Germany in 1942 about Spain annexing Portugal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.155.42 (talk) 18:02, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well actually I couldn't verify or negate that reference at all, but left it for now. And are you now saying that p129 of the Payne book is not being used to support the text you added after all? N-HH talk/edits 18:05, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, I did make an technical error - feel happy now, it was members of the Spanish government of Franco who put forward designs to annex the French territories. Stanley G. Payne. Franco and Hitler: Spain, Germany, and World War II. Yale University Press, 2008. P. 129.

Yes, I am scum N-HH, I am addicted to this place - I can't help it anymore, if you want to block me then block me, what else do you suggest that I can do — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.26.155.42 (talk) 18:08, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The restored material, even as amended, is still incorrect. Page 331 of Payne's Fascism in Spain says nothing about what "others in the Franco government" supposedly believed (the comment about expansion not being possible without the establishment of the New Order can easily be read as an observation by Payne himself). Page 129 of Franco and Hitler does not say the authors of the works Payne is discussing were "members of the Spanish government" (they may well have been, but most of the names he cites are pretty obscure and are as likely to be military or non-government figures). Nor does it say that it was in such published works that annexation of French territories in the Pyrenees and the Basque Country were discussed; he merely talks more generally about "public [and] private references" to such ideas. As for Portugal, Payne explicitly says demands for its annexation were only expressed "privately", presumably within Falangist and other nationalist circles – ie not in published works.

The references cited still do not support the material being added. If there are genuine sources that do support some of this, fine, it can go in. But in their absence, I will revert this content from all three pages. This is nothing to do with you being "scum" or me being a "smart-ass". It's about the fundamental issue of accurate information and accurate sourcing. Diverting attention from that point by personalising the issue is not helpful. N-HH talk/edits 21:00, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

ps: and of course, we already/still have this sentence – "After the Spanish Civil War and the victory of the Nationalist faction led by Francisco Franco, radical members of the Falange called for the incorporation of Portugal and the French Pyrenees into Spain" – which is sourced to the same Fascism in Spain page but actually represents the information there more accurately and succinctly. Why add an adjacent sentence which repeats that information but adds misleading detail? N-HH talk/edits 21:04, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is no Spanish irredentism

This article was created only to add a new country to the list. There is Gibraltar but that's all, the Iberian Federalism has never been in the polical debate, and the majority of the Spanish people has even never heard about it. Why there is no French irredentism article? This article should be removed. --Living001 (talk) 08:39, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]