This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organizations, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Organizations on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.OrganizationsWikipedia:WikiProject OrganizationsTemplate:WikiProject Organizationsorganization
This article is within the scope of WikiProject European Microstates, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of European Microstates on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.European MicrostatesWikipedia:WikiProject European MicrostatesTemplate:WikiProject European MicrostatesEuropean Microstates
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance
Upon checking another source says that as well. I guess all things in the Arginy movement “descend” from the OSTS, so I will just remove it PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:10, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is quite hard to say or not if they all descend from the OSTS. From my understanding, and may also he mistaken I will have to double check, this whole thing is full of schisms upon schisms.
There was internal struggle very early on and this caused a split around 1964. There was a faction that followed and stayed close to Breyer. Another faction, which still had maybe about half of the founding members, "reorganized" and around '66 became the OSTS. The first Grand Master of the OSTS was "Jean", who was actually Jean Soucasse. With Marsan as 'Great Procurator' and head of the "international land" (Monaco), a few years after the founding there was again internal struggle and the Order had split. Jean Soucasse and his brother then created the OTC (Ordre du Temple Cosmique), also known as le College Templiers, which still exists.
Jean-Louis Marsan then became the GM of the OSTS. After dying in a motorcycle accident, J-L Marsan was then succeeded by his son - not by Jean Soucasse.
Later the OSTS would split again a few times, two of which, that I am aware of, still exist today with one faction being in France and the other headquartered in Spain and going by OSTC (Orden Sobran del Templo de Cristo). 193.207.185.137 (talk) 21:59, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This whole thing gives me a headache. As you said, "schisms upon schisms".
I'll try to see if I can find anything that says any of that because you tend to be right, but things must have sources. It's probably somewhere, I will look for it. The stuff with Marsan vs Soucasse may have actually been a misinterpretation by me and not on the sources, but I will check. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:05, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, just curious, was the OTC the more "New Age" schism from 1981 that is mentioned in the Le Monde source? Ordre du Temple Cosmique seems like a very New Age type name. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:09, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, I found a book that says it is from 1978. But people's memories are often wrong so it could very well be that the Le Monde piece got the date wrong. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:22, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I will try to check my sources as to the founding year of OTC. But I believe it would be somewhere around there. I can't say for certain.
What I can say for certain was that the OSTS was on the verge of falling apart after the successive deaths of several of the founding members, including Marcel de Bagot and Robert Baptiste C. And this was around 1978 193.207.185.137 (talk) 22:47, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that 1978/79 is quite safe to say when the split happened with OTC and OSTS. However, I do not really see much in the ideals of much "New Age", at least any more than was already present in the OSTS. Both are quite observant and religious orders. The changes that occured in the OTC (at least ritualistically) seem minimal. But if you wish to understand the stances of the OSTS read the publications of Peronic, such as "Pourquoi la résurgence de l'Ordre du Temple?". And for the OTC/CT "Révélations Templières - Vers le règne du Saint Esprit". I also have another early publication that was put out by the OTC but can't remember the name at the moment. 193.207.177.15 (talk) 12:45, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
