Talk:Southernization

Keep material on 2008 election

This article needs to reflect the 2008 election to be accurate. The material has a valid source.--Parkwells (talk) 01:50, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This material should appear in the article, as the 2008 election reflects on whether Southernization continues. It has a valid source. "What may have ended on Election Day, though, is the centrality of the South to national politics. By voting so emphatically for Senator John McCain over Mr. Obama — supporting him in some areas in even greater numbers than they did President Bush — voters from Texas to South Carolina and Kentucky may have marginalized their region for some time to come, political experts say." Given the results of the 2008 presidential election, it appears that the Republican Party has become marginalized as a regional party of southern people. The Southern strategy of the Republican Party has been surpassed by its failures and by changing demographics.--Parkwells (talk) 22:57, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Not only this is a political term, southernization describes an America has adapted to typical Southern cultural traits or "middle American"/lower-class features of American life: large-scale poverty/economic gaps, low access to free health care, declined job market with mainly minimum-wage jobs, the presence of wal-marts and strip mall shopping centers, and ethnic enclavism between "non whites" such as Blacks or Hispanics from that of mostly "white" communities. What about other once-isolated regional phenomenons? "Californication" is one about America adapted to anything that originated in California, usually associated with the Liberal and Progressive movements and the US Democratic party (see also San Francisco values) and "Europeanization" of America with social or cultural traits found in Europe: increased ethnic fraction, heightened government involvement in security, economic instability or the sense of prosperity is disappearing, even the popularity of European music and cuisine, and calls for health care reform or less border patrols between nations. This is also seen as a Liberal-Socialist poltiical trend in the USA, both viewed as influences of Barak Obama and Nancy Pelosi. I doubt you'll see fung-shei architecture in Iowa (oh yeah, there's a Vedic learning center-community there) and high-speed rail train networks (the ACELA in the Northeast corridor runs between Boston and Washington DC) anywhere soon, although there's a sense of America is becoming a "third world/neo-colony" nation (examples are multicultural immigrant-majority urban areas) or alike the former Soviet bloc: a "rust belt" entirely deindustrialized, the working-class demoralized and have to move to the conservative right, and the appeal of political right-wing extremism like in Russia under the Putin presidency. America isn't only Southernized nor Californicated, we just been Europeanized or joined the third world. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 07:53, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

To further include is the criticism by the European news media when they criticize the Bush administration and the war on terror. They perceive what is the core values or beliefs of Southern American conservatives is actually a "Nazification" or "Sovietization" of a reducation of American personal liberties, as the Bush-Cheney administration in comparison with both the Nazis in Germany and Soviets in Russia never emphasized (although the USA does in retrospect) the rights of individual freedom, dignity or privacy. The US Patriot Act of 2002 lifted many due procress laws to protect the innocent, like to get a fair trial and to be convicted with a jury, the European democracies protested the US' policies of fighting terrorism as a sign of America is turning into a "right-wing/authoritarian dictatorship". + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 22:52, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree the section on the '08 election needs to be kept, but the last sentence is spelled incorrectly, gramatically incorrect, unsourced and, frankly, redundant. I'm deleting it. --Nosimplehiway (talk) 13:51, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

References

Further reading

As a caveat to the things I've added in the further reading section, they aren't necessarily the most neutral (Dixie Rising) or up-to-date (The Americanization of Dixie), but I added them because I thought it was odd that this article had been nominated for deletion. Those wishing to learn more about this subject should probably pick up Carter's From George Wallace to Newt Gingrich. He wrote this as a follow-up to his biography of George Wallace, which had included a chapter called "Richard Nixon, George Wallace, and the Southernization of American Politics". I would also recommend, as an overview and introduction to the concept, a chapter from The Cambridge Companion to Modern American Culture, which contains a brief overview of various theories. Recognizance (talk) 18:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Culture

I would argue that the "Southernization" also includes culture/language. Iced tea is now a staple in the north. Southern expressions such as "yawl" are now widely used throughout the country. ColDickPeters (talk) 15:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

The article is about politics more than general culture such as language or iced tea.--Parkwells (talk) 02:11, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Header says "values and beliefs". This includes culture. ColDickPeters (talk) 20:26, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

The expansion and extension of Southern American English and the culture of the Southeastern United States are other examples, because the movement and migration of Southerners from Appalachia, the Mississippi Delta, the Ozarks, Texans, Okies and millions of African-Americans from the Deep South in The Great Migration brought along southern culture with them up north and the far west of the USA during the 20th century should be noted or mentioned. 71.102.21.238 (talk) 09:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:45, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

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Southernization (U.S.) → Southernization – Latter redirects to former, so dab is unnecessary. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:31, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support: Disambiguation not necessary. –CWenger (^ • @) 04:31, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

• Support per nom. —  AjaxSmack  05:47, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

• Comment. The article was originally moved from Southernization to Southernization (US) as an (absurd) result of this deletion request: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southernization. There never should have been a finding of consensus for a move to a disambiguated name where no other articles existed for that name. Moving it should have waited until someone bothered to write an article on the supposed other kind of Southernization (being parallel to Westernization), but no one ever has done so. Powers ^T 12:41, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Edit

Made neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.240.255.227 (talk) 06:44, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Racism and racialism, the celebration of "whiteness" and all-American cultural identity (Americana), and a desire for a return to a pre-modern diverse multicultural time...are thought to be Southern in origins. A nostalagic romanticization of "everyone was white, middle-class, religious, Christian-Protestant, spoke English, traditional or took manners or social cues seriously, we're all called ourselves American; and held deep conservative morals, ethics and values" esp. in the 1950s, based on fictious TV shows about middle-class Suburban small town life free of minorities (esp. Black people), feminism (before women's rights), immigration (to shun foreign cultures different from our own) and other kinds of sexual orientation/gender identity. Starting in the early 1980s, The radical right picked up on our fears and worries, like America was a "better" place before the Civil Rights Movements of the 1960s and 70s, and the Politically Correct left produced a wave of Angry White Male voters in the 1990s and 2000s really is the strongest felt in the rural parts of the South. The modern-day cultural racialism long replaced official state racism but generated segregation in some form. 71.102.3.122 (talk) 20:57, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Did the US move south or the other way around.

I recently reverted an edit. I would like to justify this. In the text the only reference for the "Some commentators said that Southern values seemed increasingly important in national elections through the early 21st century." is a Newsweek article. I've offered a review of an academically published book and an article published in a peer reviewed journal as counter points. I don't think it is fair to claim the view I offered was a minority view or one without weight. Getoverpops (talk) 14:06, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

There is an argument to be had here, but it is already going on at Talk:Southern strategy. You should seek consensus there. --Sammy1339 (talk) 14:15, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Well, a good way to do that is when those who don't want a change move the discussion to the talk page. With that said, this is related but not the same as the SS discussion. Here the issue is the claim that national politics moved towards the south vs the alternative view that the thins that were already national issues became bigger issues for the south. Hence this topic is not actually discussed as part of the Southern Strategy article.Getoverpops (talk) 14:22, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Sammy, you have said you feel this information is not relevant to this article but haven't said why. I think part of the BRD is the discuss part. Please explain why you feel this information should not be added to this article.Getoverpops (talk) 05:45, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Let's take this discussion to Southern strategy. It makes no sense to have closely related debates in two different places. Wherever I've seen that done, it just gets unbearably messy and confusing. --Sammy1339 (talk) 16:24, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Why? This is a page discussing the topic southernization where national politics are seen as moving towards the issues of the south east. However, the source I added claims that it was in fact the other way around. That is the issues the south started caring about were those that the rest of the nation was concerned with (jobs, education etc). The reference is not specific to the southern strategy and thus should be discussed in this article. Getoverpops (talk) 16:39, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Why? Because the issues are exactly the same and two editors have asked you to go there? You really want to edit war over this? Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 23:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Would not dispute resolution be the correct place to talk about this particular claim? Regardless, can you justify that the references I've added are actually not related to THIS article? Getoverpops (talk) 23:52, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

All, for anyone who has been following the discussion on this talk page vs that of the Southern Strategy page, I think it is clear the specifics of the topics are different. The topics are related but not the same and any editorial comments about this article should be in this talk page. Please address the issues here so we can close out this discussion. Getoverpops (talk) 14:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

1619 project

I’m adding a see also link to the 1619 Project because that seems like another example of this phenomenon, namely, reframing US history with (Southern) slavery at the center of the narrative. Feel free to delete it if it doesn’t seem closely related enough to the rest of you. 2604:2D80:6986:4000:0:0:0:6CC0 (talk) 23:32, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Hist401

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2023 and 8 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ghamilton5000 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Heartattack4400 (talk) 22:45, 30 April 2023 (UTC)