Talk:Southern Airways Flight 932

Cleaned up a sentence and removed the reference to Xavier discontinuing its football team since it isn't very relevant.

infobox and memorial

Both have been restored by myself and Youngamerican. The opposing party has failed to give any reason and is attempting to circumvent due process by engaging in a revert pinwheel. As standard, it should stay as it is not only relevant to discussion, but enhances the page with additional information. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 00:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Both the infobox and the photo make for a stronger article. I wonder if they could be a bit more graphically balanced if they were both the same width. WVhybrid 01:12, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The title of the page is the Flight itself, not the actions about the Memorial. The Memorial correctly belongs further donw the page; or perhaps a page for itself. The photo is nice but I think a photo of the fountain at Marshall might be an even better addition. The article is missing a little information relevant to the airliner crash itself and could use updating. Mfields1 02:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

It would be unnecessary and redundant to create a page about the memorial when it could easily fit on this relatively sparse page. Fill it up with content, then we can decide if it can be moved elsewhere. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 03:00, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

If you insist on including an infobox, do you mind changing the type of crash to "unknown" or " not determined", since CFIT does not fit what happened. If you would like a definition of CFIT visit the website Faa.gov/education/research/training/media/cfit. An altimetry system error was a possible cause of the crash, which means equipment malfunction for all you aviation experts. Knightridder.

The link you provided no longer exisits. The FAA maintains the following definition of Controlled Flight Into Terrain (CTIF): A CFIT accident occurs when an airworthy aircraft, under the control of a pilot, is flown into terrain (water or obstacles) with inadequate awareness on the part of the pilot of the impending disaster. The Board concluded the accident was the result of a descent below Minimum Descent Altitude during a non precision approach under adverse operating conditions, without visual contact with the runway environment.... They further stated the ...two most likely explanations (for the greater descent) are (a) improper use of cockpit instrumentation data, or (b) and altimetry system error. The flight was under pilot control up until impact. The pilots most certainly did not have awareness of what was going to happen until it actually happened, whether it was due to a procedure error on their part or due to an instrument error. It was a tragic event, one which happened more frequently in that time in aviation than today. There are many examples. Mfields1 23:31, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Deese = Crew?

Danny Deese was not a member of the flight crew, and was not responible for the safe conduct of the flight. He was not listed as flight crew according to the NTSB in their investigation. His presence on the aircraft was not required in order for the airplane to fly per the FAR or the aircraft's type certificate. Some individuals and groups may consider him as part of a crew, based on the fact that he did help out... Thus, I count only 4 crew personell. Opinions? Check-Six 05:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I'll go with the official source from the NTSB on this. So how can this be broken down? The following needs revising: "The plane was carrying the thirty-seven members of the Marshall University Thundering Herd football squad, eight members of the coaching staff, and twenty-five boosters home after a 17-14 loss against the East Carolina University Pirates in Greenville, NC" to reflect the updated counts. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 06:36, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to give up for now, you obviously know everything. I am not going to waste my time trying to educate you on this terrible disaster that has changed so many of our lives. Knightridder

Good riddance then, you have obviously failed to cooperate with others and work together as a team to try to make this article well sourced, researched and factual. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 16:05, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Knightridder - While I don't exactly share Seicer's seniment on the matter, we should strive to be as factual as possible. Now, if you have supporting evidence to the contary of our assertions, please bring it forward. And, please sign off your comments using the ~~~~ so they are automatically time/date stamped. I truly look forward to making this an exceptional article with your help. Check-Six 17:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

If it was not for his arrogant attitude, his snide edit histories and his lack of cooperation, I would have assumed good faith. Otherwise, he's just another arrogant user who wishes to push his objectives and "facts" onto others without research. This page (and Wikipedia) is better because of these checks-and-balances. If he wishes to not cooperate, then he is more than free to leave and edit elsewhere. Seicer (talk) (contribs) 18:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Just for clarification, Deese was acting in the role as a charter manager with respect to the aircraft handling at the point of departure and destination. So he was more of a working passenger than actual flight crew.Observer9A (talk) 05:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Please comment on the content, not the contributor. Thank you. B.Wind 00:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Photography to be done

I suggest that a Wikipedian travel to Huntington, West Virginia, and photograph the Marshall plane crash site. I would like to see what the plane crash site looks like today. The photograph would be released to the public domain and inserted into the Wikipedia article. Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 20:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

List of plane crash victims

Is it okay if the article would have a list of the victims of the Marshall plane crash? Decimus Tedius Regio Zanarukando 21:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that would be a little overboard for the article, and definitely not encyclopedic... Several websites, including a couple listed in the article, include passenger lists, and I think it should stay that way. Good idea, however. Check-Six 22:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree. An external link would be better. A list of victims would overwhelm the article. If a victim list is inappropriate for September 11, 2001 attacks, it's not appropriate for here. B.Wind 05:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

How many players/coaches

In the first paragraph of the article it says there were 37 players and 8 coaches and then in another part of the article with a little box around it, it says there are 36 players and 9 coaches. Lbm5007 (talk) 22:41, 2 January 2008 (UTC)lbm5007

Speaker recognizes Mrs. McClung

What's a "normal time" for a charter? Beyond when the customer wants to leave?

On an unrelated note, it looks to me like an incidence of a "landing intention" accident: the crew had decided they were going to land, conditions be damned. Any thougts about mentioning it? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 15:28 & 15:33, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

When you leave within two hours of your comeback time!! LOL. I've been there.

On the second note I would not. The report indicates that the FDR of the day only recorded raw data pressure from the alternate static system. This data was adjusted to indicate the actual altitude by applying the recorded local area altimeter setting at the time. There is no recording of what the pilot actually saw on his altimeter; this parameter was not available on the recorders of the day. Moreover, the Captain complained of a "sluggish" autopilot response early on during the approach. This along with the fact that the aircraft underflew then climbed back to each step altitude of this full-procedure, stepdown non-precision approach. This indicates that the altitude capture feature of the autopilot was working properly against the indicated altitude but that the higher air pressure of the lower than indicated altitude was lagging to the pressure sensor of the Air Data Computer. They tested this hypothesis against the airspeed data against the radar ground speed data but it was not fine enough to draw any conclusions. In my opinion, the NTSB was clearly leaning to the partially blocked static system based on this consistent dip below each step altitude.Observer9A (talk) 06:05, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

If Wikipedia should use a picture of the football schedule for 1971

I am the grandson of John barker the president of Marshall university after the crash. I have the original photo taken for the cover of the 1971 football schedule ... Showing the president, athletic director, and football coach. It should be on your page, if Marshall no longer has the photo, have them send your contact info to his widow in Texas. I have the only printed copy, outside the university.

The name of this page is misleading and inconsistent with other similar pages

The title of this being "Southern Airways Flight 932" is misleading in that the title alone conveys that this was a commercial flight and not a chartered one. This flight was not like other plane crashes in which the airline and flight number are the only comprehensive description of the tragedy. Every single person on this plane except for the crew was a part of Marshall University's football program as coach, player, announcer, or booster. The flight was chartered by Marshall University. This subject, having been in several documentaries and even a Warner Brothers film, is not known to anyone as the Southern Airways Flight 932.

More importantly, a similar incident happened to Wichita State's football team a month earlier. That team also chartered flights--in this case, two--and one of them crashed. The Wikipedia page for that incident is titled "Wichita State University football team plane crash" acknowledging the school, team and tragedy. So, given the similarity between Marshall's plane crash and Wichita State's, and the dissimilarity with other flights, the page title needs to be "Marshall University football team plane crash." Despite the fact that an engine search will lead a searcher to this page, the current title is inconsistent and disrespects Marshall's tragedy and loss with a generic flight name that does not convey the full breadth of the story nor is ever used recognizably as the comprehensive summary of the tragedy.

And allow me to add this comment later. The tragedy is referred to as the Marshall University plane crash or air tragedy on other Wikipedia pages. Like this one for example: https://wiki.riteme.site/wiki/Harry_Bertoia

Damarco4u (talk) 18:18, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

• "Oklahoma State Cowgirls basketball team plane crash" redirects to 2011 Arkansas Piper Cherokee crash. The article about the charter flight transporting the Brazilian Chapecoense football squad is LaMia Flight 2933. The "Evansville basketball plane crash" redirects to Air Indiana Flight 216. So I would say there is pretty clear evidence that there isn't a single naming convention to be followed regarding sports team crashes. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:18, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

  Thanks for the clarification as the Wichita State plane crash seems to be the outlier. I will contend that all of these need to be changed to the name of the teams with the term "Plane Crash," obviously meaning they would be "Marshall University Football Team Plane Crash," "University of Evansville Basketball Team Plane Crash," and "Oklahoma State University Women's Basketball Plane Crash." In addition, I think the "Sabena Flight 48" page should be changed to "United States Figure Skating Team Plane Crash." I realize these names are much longer, but they are accurately descriptive and familiar, while the airline flight and number are not. Granted, any Google search goes to the page with the titles as they are, but Wikipedia itself does not do an automatic redirect. And, as I noted, the terms I used above are the very terms Wikipedia articles use because no one would recognize "Southern Airways Flight 932" as representative. I went to Marshall and did a small film on the subject, and I've never encountered the flight number in any document.

  I know that some may counter other crashes are known by their flight number but that is the only cohesive label for the tragedy since the passengers had no other affiliation. Damarco4u (talk) 17:17, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

• You say no one would recognize Southern Airways Flight 932, but that's simply not correct. Wikipedia normally prefers the correct title (like Southern Airways Flight 932) be the article title, then more search-friendly ones (like Marshall University football team plane crash) be a redirect to it. In any case, it sounds like you're suggesting a change much bigger than just this one article, so I'd suggest talking with the WP:WikiProject Aviation/Aviation accident task force to see if they think there needs to be a guideline. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:47, 14 November 2022 (UTC)