Talk:Smalls Paradise

Smalls Paradise has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: March 12, 2016. (Reviewed version).

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Things removed

I'm the one that wrote this article, and it has been much added to and improved. But things that I think should be here have been taken out:

The reference I provided to a program of the Club, which documented its correct name (Smalls Paradise, not Small's or Smalls'), is gone.
The statement that it claimed to have the only working air conditioning in Harlem has been removed.
That Malcolm X and Langston Hughes hung out there has been removed.

That it was "the only integrated venue in Harlem" is too weak. It was the only one in New York City and the State of New York. In fact I can't think offhand of another one of this antiquity anywhere in the United States.

Also "subject to integration" doesn't put it right. No one was pressuring Smalls to integrate. deisenbe (talk) 17:23, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The name seems to be clearly stated. The only working air conditioning in Harlem is trivial IMO. The article mentions Malcolm X.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:24, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds now like all he did there was wait tables. deisenbe (talk) 21:29, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Smalls Paradise/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk · contribs) 21:17, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I should finish this tomorrow JAGUAR 21:17, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You probably would anyway, but please look at the talk page. deisenbe (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments

"Located in the basement of 2294 Seventh Avenue near 135th Street" - the early history section says that it was located in Seventh Avenue and West 135th Street; the lead misses the "West 125th Street" and the early history section neglects the number "2294" Done We hope (talk) 21:59, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"The entertainment at Smalls Paradise did not stop at the stage" - sounds slightly informal for the lead. How about something like The entertainment at Smalls Paradise was not limited to the stage; Done We hope (talk) 22:07, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"waiters danced the Charleston" - Charleston (dance) should be linked here and de-linked later on in the lead, for clarity Done We hope (talk) 22:07, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Many well-known musicians, both white and African-American, - appeared at the club over the years" - remove a comma or hyphen Done We hope (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Entrepreneur Ed Smalls owned a small venue in Harlem" - link Harlem Done We hope (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"When Smalls opened Smalls Paradise[b]in " - space needed DoneWe hope (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Though Prohibition was the order of the day" - how about Though Prohibition was in effect Done We hope (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"and which was really racially integrated" - informal, I think removing "which" and "really" would make it sound more encyclopaedic Done We hope (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"For his Smalls Paradise, Smalls now had his waiters dance the Charleston while serving guests" - as of when? I think it would sound better without "now" Done We hope (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
" with the permission of the clubs' management.[19] [d]" - space not needed Done We hope (talk) 22:20, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"When the girl was asked what key she sang in, she replied that she didn't know and the audition was over" - this could be quoted somehow, or rephrased to she replied that she did not know, and the audition was unsuccessful Done We hope (talk) 22:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"A young Malcolm X, who enjoyed the atmosphere at Smalls, Paradise," - remove comma Done We hope (talk) 22:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Someone came up with the idea to hold Twist dance contests" - does the source state who?
The story doesn't say who had the idea to start a Tuesday night twist contest, only that it was done because Tuesday nights were slow at the club. We hope (talk) 22:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"who believed the music genre Funk was on the way out" - no need for capitalisation Done
"The story line is that Ed Smalls has a singer who is drawing record crowds" - The plot revolves around Ed Smalls' singer drawing record crowds Done We hope (talk) 22:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well done on all the work put into this, Blofeld, Rosiestep and We hope! I'll leave this on hold until all of the above are clarified. The sources look great, and I couldn't find any issues with the images. There were a few instances of informal prose, but they can easily be dealt with. JAGUAR 21:54, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nice work! I think this is good to go now.

JAGUAR 17:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers Jaguar, thanks for the review!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:42, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Are we sure that the place was "often erroneously called Small's Paradise and Smalls' Paradise"? A quick flick through classified ads via ProQuest results shows that it advertised itself using any of the three in the early 1940s, as "Smalls Paradise" in the early 1950s, and as "Smalls' Paradise" in the mid-1950s and into the early 1960s. Or is the argument that the typesetters got it wrong? Either way, the "erroneously" needs considerable justification, given the conflicting evidence. EddieHugh (talk) 14:13, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a photo of the club's marquee prior to 1955, when Ed Smalls sold to Tommy Smalls. You see no apostrophe on the sign; would believe that Ed Smalls would have spoken up if the sign was in error and not allowed it to stay "as is" for the 30 years he owned the club. We hope (talk) 14:23, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is a photo of the marquee after Wilt Chamberlain owned the club. You see no apostrophe in "Smalls" either. We hope (talk) 14:35, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

From further reading, I found that the first photo of the marquee dates from around 1928. It's shown here, along with an updated marquee from circa 1940. This was during the time Ed Smalls owned the club; if it was not correct, he made no changes to it when the stylized marquee was added. We hope (talk) 14:49, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we've established that the marquee said "Smalls" (although there's also this photo, possibly of the same place, which has "The Small's Paradise"). The equivalent outside the Blue Note has "Blue Note" and "Blue Note Jazz Club", so a sign alone can't be taken to be sufficient. We've also established that newspaper advertising for SP used all three, perhaps at different times. It's hard to justify the use of "erroneously" when the club itself appears to have used those forms. Wouldn't it be better to give an account, perhaps in a footnote, of the variations and where they appeared, as "erroneously" at the moment is an assumption? EddieHugh (talk) 15:59, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the word erroneously. This was original wording when it was started but without any citation(s) to prove that "Smalls Paradise" was the correct name of the venue. While researching the club, I've seen all three versions of the name used, even on material produced for the club. This is the back of the postcard used in the article. It was produced when Ed Smalls owned the club and was obviously produced to promote the club by the wording on the back. All 3 were used frequently. We hope (talk) 16:27, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The air conditioning

Does everyone agree that the claim to have the only working air conditioning in Harlem is trivial? (See above.) We all take air conditioning for granted (in the U.S. at least). So I think it's more important than one might realize at first glance. If one lived in a tenement, on a hot summer night (and remember that New York, like all cities, is a center of heat), an air conditioned facility would be attractive. Movie theaters put up signs saying "It's cool inside!"

(If anyone shares my interest in the history of technology, these systems were using ammonia, not Freon, and were far too expensive for a typical home.) deisenbe (talk) 13:57, 8 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]