Talk:Slovenia men's national basketball team

No edit warring

User Snowflake91, I asked you several times to stop edit warring and discuss the matter here, and I don't understand why, if you disagree with anything I added, you continue to undo my edits instead of discussing the matter here and civilly. So let's do that, and let's focus on improving the article.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 13:31, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

2020 Summer Olympics

• "After Doncic, who recorded a triple-double, the first since LeBron James in 2012 and one of only three in history, and the second-highest score in one game (48 points),[67] Prepelic and Tobey were credited as Slovenia's best players at the Tokyo Olympics.[68] Prepelič was ranked among the players who "should be on NBA radars" by the end of the tournament,[69][70] and Mike Tobey, who recorded three double-doubles,[71] was praised in Europe and overseas.[72]"

This entire paragraph is unneeded, irrelevant to this article, and belongs to the players' articles or the "Basketball at the 2020 Olympics" article.

• You are constantly misspeling the names - its not "Prepelic", its "Prepelič", its not "Doncic", its "Dončić".
• Puffery non-encyclopedic words, like "who exploded with 26 points", "sensational block", "got some "box-and-one 'love' from Sergio Llull", "Doncic flirted with triple-double" etc.
• Exteremely overly detailed match reports, you dont summarize one game in 2 paragraphs and 400 words (!).

If you wont short this fluff by yourself by at least 50% I will keep reverting to the better trimmed version, which is well-written and includes only key and most important content (results of the matches, final position, Doncic all star team, Prepelic being blocked in key match etc. etc.), while you included 13 paragraphs for ONE appearance at the Olympics, is this a joke? United States team has 13 paragraphs for entire 2006-2020 period. You apparently misread the article title, its called "Slovenia men's national basketball team" and NOT "Detailed and in-depth review of Slovenian team performance at the 2020 Olympics". Snowflake91 (talk) 13:39, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Snowflake91 why did you open a new section and did not comment above? You: "If you wont short this fluff by yourself by at least 50% I will keep reverting to the better trimmed version"; better according to whom? Who is deciding here? Why are you making "threats"? You want to improve the article? Let's avoid annihilating my edit, but you are free to improve my additions if you wish. Am I misspelling? I'll try and fix that, you are free to help! But please, let's be polite. while you included 13 paragraphs for ONE appearance at the Olympics, is this a joke? Do not use capital letters, please, be polite. What other editors did with other articles does not belong here. You just declared you will be edit warring, and that's no good.

When I finished editing this article I myself thought: it's too long. But then I read it over and there was nothing out of place, all useful information reported in several sources; nothing is stated twice. So while I think we may use fewer words, for me the article is passable as it is. "who exploded with 26 points" is actually used by the FIBA source, if anything, it could by copyvio. "got some "box-and-one 'love' from Sergio Llull" is also a quote from FIBA, and it's put between quotation marks. Did you check the sources? Did you read the article beside measuring its length? And why you constantly call this fluff and puffery and threaten instead of edit the article so as to state the same thing with fewer words? I disagree with you, and believe the first paragraph you quoted is needed: it shows the accomplishments of its best players, remarks Doncic's exploit but also shows that Slovenia "wasn't just Doncic". If anything, I'd add to it that, moreover, all players were generally praised for their performance (using the Dnevnik source, which says so).--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 14:09, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Its too long, too detailed and thats pretty much it, only the detailed match report against Australia for the Bronze match is bigger than entire "Eurobasket" section, this tells everything. And did you read MOS:PUFFERY? Who cares if those words are directly from the source, we dont use them at Wikipedia. Again, this is supposed to be a short summary of Slovenian basketball history, not detailed match-by-match reports of their Olympic performances. Snowflake91 (talk) 14:23, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I read it, and you? Can you distinguish it? Is that puffery or a quote from a reliable source? Can we state what the sources say with our own words? Maybe with fewer ones? Would you help? Please, be polite. What does it matter if the EuroBakset section is shorter or if, according to you, the United States' article is shorter? How are you reasoning? This is an improvement to the article, verified by reliable sources, period. While I think that the core of my addition is essentialy fit to be included in the main article, I believe that we shouldn't create an article for Slovenia's basketball team performance at this Olympics, their first. When they have more participations, and stories to tell, we will create those articles.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 14:38, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

This is not an improvement, period, you made the section absurdly over strecthed and included so many irrelevant material, a short review of key matches and moments is fine, but you included several paragraphs with over thousand words for only 3 played matches. Imagine that they would write 300 words for every single Olympic game of the US basket team at their article. The section needs to be trimmed or the content will have to be split; if its too early to create Slovenia men's national basketball team at the Summer Olympics, then parts of it should be moved to Slovenia at the 2020 Summer Olympics#Basketball. Snowflake91 (talk) 15:14, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

This is not an improvement period. I believe anything is an improvement, and what I wrote is detailed and carefully sourced. I don't understand how you reason, why you keep thinking of other articles? If the United States made a comparable achievement adjusted to their size any editor could do that, provided they use reliable sources. In fact, anybody could do that regardless! I think we can either leave the article as it is, since Slovenia has just one participition at the Olympics (which, however, had a great echo) or create a specific article, including in it the present text, with the proper adjustments, and reduce the present article. In any case we need to collaborate and focus exclusively on improving the article, not making it of the "same length" as others, without exalting anything, but neither humbling things down or hiding anything.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 15:33, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Create 2020 Slovenia men's Olympic basketball team, similar as 2012 United States men's Olympic basketball team then, you can include detailed reports like that there, but in this article this is unacceptable and would have to be deleted for being to excessive. Snowflake91 (talk) 17:46, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Like I said, things are fine as they are now as far as I'm concerned, but you are free to create such an article if you wish. Once completed, I'll then move the text from this article to the new one. And no, it will not be deleted from this article, not even if in your own opinion it is "unacceptable". However, I'll be happy to edit it with you and discuss what to delete and what to keep.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 18:08, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes it will when the separate article for the 2020 Olympics will be created, which Im already working on, we wont have the same content in two different articles. Snowflake91 (talk) 18:16, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

By the way, use archive.org/web/ for archiving link, not archive.ph, those links doesnt even open at the momemnt, and you need some kind of verfication. Snowflake91 (talk) 18:28, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the info. Please, pin me when article is ready.--Haldir Marchwarden (talk) 19:07, 9 August 2021 (UTC)