Talk:Sleep/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

Preservation and Protection

I read that larger animels (those less vulnerable) sleep less than their smaller, more-commonly-preyed-upon counterparts. If true, this is certianly worth mentioning in this section...anyone know?--141.157.106.115 17:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

sleep story

Sixty-four-year-old Thai Ngoc, known as Hai Ngoc, said he could not sleep at night after getting a fever in 1973, and has counted infinite numbers of sheep during more than 11,700 consecutive sleepless nights. "I don't know whether the insomnia has impacted my health or not. But I'm still healthy and can farm normally like others," Ngoc said. Proving his health, the elderly resident of Que Trung commune, Que Son district said he can carry two 50kg bags of fertilizer down 4km of road to return home every day. His wife said, "My husband used to sleep well, but these days, even liquor cannot put him down." She said when Ngoc went to Da Nang for a medical examination, doctors gave him a clean bill of health, except a minor decline in liver function. Ngoc currently lives on his 5ha farm at the foot of a mountain busy with farming and taking care of pigs and chickens all day. His six children live at their house in Que Trung. Ngoc often does extra farm work or guards his farm at night to prevent theft, saying he used three months of sleepless nights to dig two large ponds to raise fish.

Night terrors

The article has a paragraph on night terrors, so I linked it to the Night Terrors page. However, this page and that page have different advice for handling them. Nosedog 04:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

My Sleepwalking theory

• [1]-A Sleep Disorder Theory?

"you may be wondering about why people may be able to commit to hypnosis but may not be a susceptible sleepwalker. But I don’t think that is the case at all - it’s possible that everyone who can be hypnotised can sleepwalk and vice versa, but not one without the other. Statistics show around 15% of people respond well to hypnosis, the exact same percentage of those who are known to or suspected to sleepwalk at some time in their life. Coincidence? I think not…"

Class Reference

Sleep falls more under neuroscience than it does psychology. Just my 2cents.

This guy who never sleeps

Hope this wasn't addressed before, but here The snare 16:09, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

http://www.thanhniennews.com/features/?catid=10&newsid=12673

Picture covering text

Stage one sleep picture is covering the text. Move it. Skinnyweed 17:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

covering what text? The text wraps around the image.. as it does with the other images. What browser are you using? MrSandman

Copied material

A lot of material on this page sounds like it has been copied directly from some other source without being identified as such. Anyone care to check it out?

Can you point out some examples?

Yes, that, and who are you? BTW, Other sites, including commercial ones, commonly (and sometimes imprudently) lift stuff from wikipedia. This MAY be what you have observed. Sfahey 02:49, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Mistake in the article?

I'm no sleep expert, but there seems to be a contradiction. According to the sleep article, it says: "In 1965, California teenager Randy Gardner attempted to resist sleep in an uncontrolled "experiment". As his ordeal progressed he fell into a silent stupor, bringing into doubt whether he was actually awake in any practical sense." But if you look at the Randy Gardner article, it says "On his final day without sleep, Gardner presided over a press conference where he spoke without slurring or stumbling his words and in general appeared to be in excellent health." Clearly one page or the other must be wrong, since in his final day he could not have both been in 'a silent stupor' that brings into doubt whether he was even awake or not, and 'in perfect health', speaking at a press conference, at the same time. Anyone know the real story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hikaru79 (talk • contribs)

Other animals

I don't think it's mentioned anywhere else in the article, but if reptiles, amphibians, and the like don't sleep, what do they do? Do they rest at all, or do they partake in an activity similar to sleep? -albrozdude 04:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

The jury is still out on that one. They do have "rest" periods, but they do not fit the EEG criteria we use for sleep... at least that is the common consensus. Additionally, there are not many people studying non-mammalian sleep, so we just don't have enough info. MrSandman 13:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Why not make a note of this somewhere in the article? --Elgringo18 09:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I did. But someone deleted it. There was an entire section on it. For the sake of brevity though... it was deleted. This article could easily become 50 pages if we wanted to.

I missed a section on other animals' sleep. It would be interesting to know which animals sleep and which do not, apparently. Do insects sleep? Fish? Is it a 'higher' function, in that bacteria do not 'sleep'? Where is the taxonomic 'line' between animals which sleep and those which do not? A section could easily be added on this subject without the article having to go to 50 pages... Nick Michael 13:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

For your information! There is now an article Sleep (non-human) which answers some of the questions above. Someone had done a nice job on Sömn hos djur in Swedish, and it's now been translated into English. --Hordaland (talk) 01:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Sleep less

http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2002/02_08_Kripke.html This article recomends 6-7 hours of sleep is better for ones health then eight. I'm not sure whos correct just thought I would point it out. 69.123.96.192 00:00, 3 May 2006 (UTC)Sean

The trick here is to weed out the people who slept more than 8 hours because they were ill, or on medicine that made them sleep more. The authors here do not (probably for this reason) conclude that sleeping longer CAUSED more deaths.Sfahey 03:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture

Am I the only one that thinks that the picture is unnecessary? Do they even wear pajamas in every country? Does that coincide with the worldview policy? --70.18.54.9 11:54, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Open eyed sleep

Any idea on this? Anyone knows something about it? One day I was travelling, and sleepy... I tryed my best to keep my eyes open to doon't sleep, and looks like I made an HILD (see lucid wikia)... After a time, my father, that was driving said he talked a lot to me and I didn't asnwered, and that I was with my eyes open... And I don't remember he saying anything, so I wasn't really awake... 201.34.228.145 19:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

You were probably day dreaming then lol

The only mammal that I know of which sleeps with its eyes open are snakes, since they have no eyelids so they cannot blink either (I think, something like that anyway)--Rob Scrivener 15:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

In 'Counting Sheep' by Paul Martin, it is claimed that humans can sleep with eyes open, so long as they're sleep deprived, although the same author would point out that it would only be light sleep (stage 1-2) as we only fall into deep sleep when lying down. Cotard 13:26, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

How to stay awake

Well seeing as there is a section titled "Approaches to sleeping better". Is it correct we should have a section created specifically for techniques on how to stay awake for periods of time. This information would be particuarly helpful to students, and those whose jobs require long or odd hours.

but unfortunately, all the data shows that it is not a good idea.. especially in an academic (learning) situation. It would be redundant as there is a section on the effects of sleep deprivation.

MrSandman

You make a good point MrsSandman but what right do we have to restrict information that we deem harmful? Who are we to judge? The need of staying awake while tired is one many will experience in their life time and so I still argue the case that we should provide some mild tehniques in managing to stay awake as they would be very practical. Also there may be scientific or psychological studies on this would could generate further interest.

Wikipedia is not a cookbook / userguide. _└ ^VodkaJazz / _talk ^┐ 02:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced statements, speculation, and claims

There are a lot of speculative statements and folk medical wisdom in this piece that aren't cited to any source at all. I've tagged a couple of the more egregious offenses, such as the entire section that's mostly just wikipedians listing what they think works without any evidence. Night Gyr 08:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it might seem like personal experience and probably is but I'm sure at least a few of the suggestions could be sourced somewhere. It has the OR tag so no need to remove it just yet. Skinnyweed 16:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The entire section is ridiculous and is better off being removed. Anyone who wants to add back parts it should be careful to be sure that claims are properly referenced. --SpinyNorman 01:47, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Frequesncy of EEG in second stage

Is it right that the frequecy of EEG in the second stage of sleep is 12= 16 Hz? Its a bit too high, I think. Not too sure.......... Alexsanjoseph

12-16Hz is the frequency of "sleep spindles", which is indicated in the text, and underlined in the representative image. Spindles are the hallmark of Stage 2, which is why they are mentioned.

MrSandman 18:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

sleeping to answer questions

i have heard that some sleep to help them remember information or answer a question, is there a name for this, and should this be included in the article --voodoom 03:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

see section on functions of sleep. it covers memory consolidation.

MrSandman 18:38, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You're asking about a specific practice, not the function of sleep in general, right? As in the phrase "sleeping on it", or in Incubation (ritual). Sourcejedi 14:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Article is the wrong way round

The article is currently an article on Human sleep with a small section on Non-human animal sleep (previously, and very mistakenly, called Animal sleep). This article should deal with a wide range of non-human animal sleep--general patterns and motifs--with a small section, linked to a main article, about the specifics of Human sleep. Any ideas how to tackle this problem? I suggest we dump some of the article at Human sleep and fix the remaining sections. --Oldak Quill 02:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

..But what is the difference? Humans are primates/mammals. We know more about human sleep than most other animals....and when we refer to human sleep.. we are talking about mammalian sleep.. just as we use the literature from other species to explain human sleep. In addition, people come here to learn about what is familiar to them.. that is.. "our" sleep. If you want to get into more detail, or are seeking other info, reading the original sources is the way to go anyway. MrSandman 22:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

No, this article should deal with "sleep" - what it is, how it works, &c. It should discuss the commonalities between all species which sleep with a couple of sections on major divisions (===Reptilian sleep===, ===Avian sleep===, ===Mammalian sleep===, &c.). If species-specific sleep is different/special enough it should be given its own article (eg. Human sleep). Human sleep would describe the human sleep cycle, human dreams, etc. An article shouldn't deal with humans only, unless the article has the word "human" in its title. --Oldak Quill 19:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with "Sandman." I imagine one could make the same argument about "arthritis," "nutrition," "house," etc. and, still, the great bulk of those encyclopedia article as well should be about humans. Sfahey 20:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, one *should* make the same arguements about "arthritis" and "nutrition", they are not restricted to humans and should be treated neutrally. I would say that "house" is a human concept (wolves have dens, termites, mounds, etc.) --Oldak Quill 02:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that articles should be neutral in as many ways as possible, but they should also be interesting. Now I think this article is most intersting when it's dealing mostly with human sleep, by the simple reason that the very vast majority of readers wants to know exactly about human sleep (except for veterinarians). Still, for veterinarians, there is a section for non-human sleep as well. Mikael Häggström 12:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Missing word in second sentence?

The second sentence says Sleep is actually "unconsciousness," but rather, [...]. Shouldn't that be "Sleep is not actually unconsciousness. Otherwise, it shouldn't be followed with but rather.

Sleep not a form of "unconsciousness"?

This is all over the lead paragraph. I would describe sleep as "more than" or "a special form of" unconsciousness. Golly, if you're not conscious of your surroundings while sleeping, you are "unconscious." Sfahey 20:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

dictionary defines as "not conscious; without awareness, sensation, or cognition." Sleeping, we lack all these things. I'll add a 'lacking citation' tag to the statement so someone can verify whether it is or isn't unconciousness. --141.157.106.115 17:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

People do think during sleep, just very disordered thoughts which we tend not to remember. Also, we are very conscious in dreams, even if - again - we might not always remember them. Furthermore, important stimuli such as our name, an unusual sound or physical sensation, are often enough to rouse us, indicating we are monitoring the environment to a certain extent (although I grant there's a difference between monitoring and being aware of, but I don't want to get bogged down in theorising about the nature of consciousness :-p). Unfortunately am away from home so can't cite any sources on this (!). Will get back later (if I remember) Cotard 13:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Snoozing

I'm sure we are all familiar with hitting the snooze button in the morning to get those few extra minutes of sleep! I do it all the time, sometimes for up to an hour. Sometimes, I'm totally unaware of even hitting the snooze button, as though I haven't even woken up. When I evenutally get up, I feel shattered. This morning however, I didn't snooze once, and I feel much more alert. I assume there is something to learn from this!

Does anyone have any thoughts or theories on this?

Thank you Zzzzzzzzzzz

Sentence makes no sense

In the 'Anthropologies of Sleep' section, there is this sentence: "Sleep may be an actively social time depending on the sleep groupings, with no constraints on noise or activity." In reference to who/how many people one would sleep with. This sentence makes no sense, as one cannot be active, or social, whilst asleep, and the constraints are quite obvious: How much can you conciously do while sleeping? So, why is this here? Slokunshialgo 00:26, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

People may not be social while they are actually sleeping, but are social during the time when people are lying down, preparing for sleep, or other people are sleeping. They sleep, then wake up, the sleep again, and are social during the intervening periods. Peregrine981 18:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Unless you think this is a sloppy way to say that people who are "close" maintain/foster this relationship by sleeping together, I vote for deleting it. Sfahey 22:27, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think there's more to it than simply "staying close", if you read the source article it talks about how in some societies, nighttime/sleeptime are the times that people get a chance to talk to each other, but also that if there's problems in the community, its a non-confrontational time to take up issues. The point is also that some societies do not have the same requirements for quiet during sleep as others do. Also that sleep may be interupted for social opportunities rather than being purely for rest. Peregrine981 00:36, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

innaccuracy in first sentence

The first sentence reads:

Sleep is the state of natural rest observed in all mammals, birds, and fish.

but this is not true in all cases, I have heard for example that most sharks do not sleep but continually move throughout their lives because they need to be moving for water to pass through their gills. Sharks are a type of fish.

Sharks are indeed a type of fish, and you are right that most of them need to keep moving; however that doesn't mean they don't sleep or rest in some way while swimming. Ever heard of a person sleep-walking? ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 17:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

IIRC, stationary sharks have been spotted; as far as I remember, no-one offered an explanation for how they were managing to breathe. A more interesting case are dolphins, who need to come up for air at regular intervals. It shows how much (complex) nervous systems need sleep that they've evolved the ability to sleep one cerebral hemisphere at a time. Cotard 13:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I also feel that the first sentence isn't an effective opening definition. Defining sleep as a "state of natural rest" just doesn't sound right to me - for one it's a circular reference, and secondly, I'm not even sure it's true. Could we define it as an altered (but natural) state of consciousness from normal waking consciousness? Any better suggestions? Brian Fenton 21:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I think sleep is mostly a subset of "rest". There are times when people sleeping aren't resting (such as sleepwalking, as you mentioned) but these are exceptions that can be covered later in the article. Most dictionaries define sleep as a state of rest, and I don't think this is a mistake :) Ciotog 07:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't like the first sentence either. Voluntary activity is turned off, but the brain is very busy indeed. Most dictionaries are revisions of older dictionaries and sleep research has made giant strides the last few decades; dictionaries may not have caught up. I too think that something about consciousness would be better. That might also contribute to an answer to a question above about where the dividing line is between animals which do and do not sleep.--Hordaland (talk) 20:28, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Compound

I'm looking for a particular medicine that was being tested that permitted patients to remain awake for days at a time. Jachra 23:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Need to reduce the weasels here

Although sleep is a subject that is still mysterious, with many aspects that cannot be discussed definitively, this article still contains too many examples of weasel words and usage. WP:WEASEL -- 201.51.236.252 11:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Animals probably aren't "anthropology"

Sleep habits of cattle, horses, sheep, and other animals should probably not be included in section on "Anthropology of sleep". -- 201.51.236.252 11:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Sheep, cattle and horses aren't unique in this, either - all grazing herbivores have this tendency to sleep whilst standing.

Footnoting style

We definitely need to regularize the footnoting style throughout the article. Wikipedia:Footnotes -- 201.51.236.252 11:48, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Amount of Required Sleep for Teens is Wrong

The National Sleep Foundation says that the required amount of sleep for teens is 8.5 - 9.5 hours NOT 13. (where does that number even come from) this should be changed also I believe (but cannot confirm, that the amount for adults IS closer to six or seven hours depending on the person,not 8.

Prominent Figures and Sleep

It's pretty widely known that Stanley Kubrick slept for only four hours a night. I've heard that repeated several times and even from Christiane Kubrick. Also Malcolm X was known to sleep for that same amount. Margret Thatcher, I have heard, though I admit to not knowing thing 1 about her - slept for about the same time as those mentioned. Should the article highlight some of this - the prominent figures of history who've been known to produce high quality product for many years, have their sleep in common? I think its terribly fascinating. -Gohst 00:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thatcher, "high quality product" ??? What do you mean? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.19.140.152 (talk) 00:25, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

I mean "I don't know thing 1 about her" - I hardly know anything about my own countries' politics, let alone another's and which happened before I was born. I was using her as an example in the broader point I was trying to make about sleep. What I really mean is that some prominent figures have been known to sleep for a low number of hours each night and that there may be some interesting correlation which might be of use. -Gohst 11:11, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Gro Harlem Brundtland, former Prime Minister (twice, I believe) of Norway and former leader of WHO, a physician and Labor Party politician, needs 9 hours. If one is going to search for prominent individuals to illustrate the one end of the spectrum, one must include their opposite numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hordaland (talk • contribs) 00:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Dream timing contradiction

The article contradicts itself about when dreams occur during sleep. In the sleep phases section, the article says dreams can occur during any phase, not just REM. Then, in the Dream section, the article implies that dreams occur only or mainly in REM. --68.202.66.211 01:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Necessary for life?

The first paragraph of the article states that sleep is necessary for life, but I seem to remember having read somewhere that no one is quite sure if sleep deprivation can cause death. Then again, I've also heard that fatal familial insomnia does cause death via sleep deprivation. Does anyone have any scientific sources stating one or the other? - Doopokko 05:22, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

That's a very good point. I read of a Vietnamese man who hasn't sleep for over three decades. This article truly amazed me, though. --Ishikawa Minoru 22:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Animal studies (rats) have shown that sleep deprivation will result in death. If this is not linked in the article (it used to be).. I will find it again. Also, with regard to the gentleman that "never sleeps".... unless he has had a days (more than 24 hours) long EEG recording.... there is now way you can definitively say that he does not sleep. MrSandman 04:07, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

I posted that link about the Vietnamese guy up near the top of this page Did you see it somewhere else, and post it here? I am skeptical about it, not sure it's true, unless we put him through say a week long study with yes EEG testing we don't know.

I heard the record for staying fully awake is 11 days. And, yes experiments with rats have shown it's nessecary at least with rats or those particular rats. To do it they had them on a turn table and disturbed them when they tried to sleep so they couldn't. They eventually lost the ability to regulate thier body temperature and died. The snare 06:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Cattle sleep while standing?

I (as my username may suggest) raise cattle. I live in Alberta and see cattle all over the place. My Gido was a major cattle operator once owning over 100 head of cattle. I have never seen, nor heard of a cow sleeping while standing. They will do do it in a sitting position, or on thier sides, but not standing up. Kc4 07:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I beleive giraffe's do it, as their necks are too large to manage lying down/getting back up again, they snap, apparently, in the process if they attempt to do so. I've not heard the same for cows and I've frequently seen them laying on their sides to sleep. Gohst 03:40, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

7 vs. 8 hours

The Van Dongen et Al. paper looked only at 8, 6, and 4 hours of sleep concluding that 8 was enough and 6 was not. It makes no claims whatsoever about 7. Can someone please find a citation for 7 hours one way or the other? If not let't delete the statement. --Selket 04:57, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

According to the already linked CNN article "The National Sleep Foundation, which recommends eight hours of sleep per night for optimal health, immediately attacked the study's findings and said they can do nothing but cause the public unnecessary confusion and concern.". So I think the figure should be eight unless an even better source can be found. --CygnusPius 06:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Sleep according to age

I read the article in order to find the right scematics regarding the link between age and neccesity to sleep. Not finding it here, I searched for other recources, wondering wether or not it was bullocks that sleep and age are linked or if it was something that wasn't included yet.

What I found was a pretty clear graph that explains a study involving both factors and their inner linkage. You can find it here: http://www.teleac.nl/beterslapen/index.jsp?nr=574728#b578164 It's in Dutch indeed but the graph should be pretty clear.

I'm not an editor on WP myself so I will not attemp to produce this part in the article. Hope it could be included cause it seems to be something that is forgotten. If not, I appologize, just trying to make this thing more complete. --Chronix 0:26, 1 Februari 2007

Thanks for the notice. I'll see if I can fit some information into the article. Gohiking 15:45, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Please fix this!!

someone vandalized the sleep page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zeamaes (talk • contribs) 05:03, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

Whales and dolphins??

Whales and dolphins are also different to humans: they always have to be conscious, as they are conscious breathers, so only one half of their brain sleeps at a time.[citation needed]

This would seem to contradict the suggestion in the first section that sleep is NOT a state of unconsciousness.

The sentence really doesn't make any sense. What I think it's trying to say is that the brain continues to be active during sleep. This is addressed later in the article, so I'm going to take the sentence out. If someone wants to put it back, please cite it. --Selket ^Talk 16:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Chicken and the Egg

According to the philosopher Emmanuel Levinas in his 1946-1947 lectures, Time and the Other, "consciousness is the power to sleep". --Teetotaler

Any good geneticist will tell you that it's the egg that comes "first"... ;)

MrSandman 01:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

function of sleep

sleep seems to be important for relational memory, too.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-04/bidm-tut042007.php —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.60.2.4 (talk) 10:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Citations

I am bothered by two things when reading this article: 1) It has hardly any citations (I'm tempted to tag it as such, but first I have to look up how), and 2) It is not self-contained (too much uncommon terminology is used to make many passages readable). Although there are links to explanations, the article would be much more informative to the lay person if it didn't require linking away to dozens of other articles to understand the central concepts. Btwied 21:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Half the point of a wiki is that you can link to other concepts instead of wasting time and space explaining them... 69.105.29.97 23:15, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

My Sleepwalking theory

• [2]-A Sleep Disorder Theory?

"you may be wondering about why people may be able to commit to hypnosis but may not be a susceptible sleepwalker. But I don’t think that is the case at all - it’s possible that everyone who can be hypnotised can sleepwalk and vice versa, but not one without the other. Statistics show around 15% of people respond well to hypnosis, the exact same percentage of those who are known to or suspected to sleepwalk at some time in their life. Coincidence? I think not…"

Thanks

Thanks for the really wonderful article.

Dividing this article into sleep and human sleep

Would there be any objections to a division of this article into sleep and human sleep? Human sleep would receive most of the content in this article and would deal with the physiology and ritual/culture of sleep peculiar to humans. Sleep would widely define it and approach it more species-neutrally: the shared features of sleep among all animals and peculiar characteristics of sleep among major divisions in the animal kingdom. --Oldak Quill 15:58, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that articles should be neutral in as many ways as possible, but they should also be interesting. Now I think this article is most intersting when it's dealing mostly with human sleep, by the simple reason that the very vast majority of readers wants to know exactly about human sleep (except for veterinarians). Still, for veterinarians, there is a section for non-human sleep as well. Mikael Häggström 12:35, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

| Animal sleep is human sleep... they are the same. The physiology is the same.. So how would you split this up? Additionally, most of what we know about sleep is gathered from basic research.. not research on humans. Humans are animals (mammals) too, however.. so much of what is in this article relates directly to human sleep. There are plenty of "human specific" aspects to this article.

MrSandman 16:19, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Dreaming - vandalism

I've cleaned up the English in the section "Dreaming". I couldn't understand professor Pekka Sutola's theory, however, so I did some research - this paragraph was added in January 2007 (here's the diff: http://wiki.riteme.site/w/index.php?title=Sleep&diff=103004179&oldid=102833095) by an anonymous user in Stockholm who also (probably - the IP address is dynamic) had a go at vandalising Jimmy Wales' user page. Unsurprisingly, there is no professor Sutola at Helsinki university or anywhere else. I'm therefore removing the paragraph. It lasted more than 6 months, though, which is pretty good for a complete fiction.

--Nyelvmark 07:40, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

humans not sleeping facing north

me: hey I wanted to ask you one more thing why do we sleep with our head not facing north? --69.150.163.1 03:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC) User:Kushal_one

I think that might be your house....Floorwalker 03:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Need for sleep

seems to me that sleep is not essential for in the sense that it can be replaced.

for instance, oxygen is essential for survival: you can't live without oxygen. air is not essential for survival. you can live, although probably not very comfortably, without air. for instance, if you get one of those machines that pumps oxygen directly into your blood you can live without breathing. also most human have lived without air for about 9 month while they were fetuses.

I think the fact that some people can acquire the ability to go without sleep shows that sleep is not essential to survival in the sense that we don't really need air to live. But i can see that some people might disagree not based on facts, but based on their understanding of "essential" it's basically a semantic argument and really don't have anything to do with this article, so i removed the whole part about "sleep is essential for one's proper function".Philosophy.dude 17:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

stuck

how come sometimes when i fall asleep it feels like i fell asleep for a second but when i check my alarm clock it has been sevrel hours?

and sometimes when i try to get up in the morning my body won't move i can't even open my eyes im just stuck like that (i know what's going on but in my mind im awake) till i try to kick my legs up or when i try to roll myself off my bed so the impact of me hitting the floor well get my body moving why can't i just you know get up in the morning like i usually do?-FOZSTER —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.145.32.60 (talk) 21:31, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

You are describing Sleep paralysis. Hordaland (talk) 03:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

3.5 Preservation

The second paragraph on this section appears to use mant weasle-words and fails to prove anything. Anyone agree it should be removed?

Austin 17:15, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

How can you stay awake longer?

Well I am just wanting to know some techniques —Preceding unsigned comment added by Z heezey (talk • contribs) 00:29, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

How to fall asleep faster

thanks i would like some techniques

zac 19:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Vandals

This page appears to have been vandalized many times recently. Please keep a watch on changes. Snowman (talk) 22:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Sömn hos djur (Sleep in non-humans)

A Swedish user, Nitramus, has just written a very interesting article about animal sleep. It should be worthwhile translating it into English by someone who knows Swedish (and the subject matter) well enough, if the author doesn't want to do it her/himself. The emphasis is on observable behavior, rather than on activity in the brain. One can get an idea about the content by looking at the list of references and at the table of contents (here in my translation):

Content

1 About sleep

2 Sleep in different animals

2.1 Sleep in invertebrates

2.2 Sleep in lower vertebrates

2.3 Sleep in birds

2.4 Sleep in mammals

2.4.1 Sleep in egg-laying mammals

2.4.2 Sleep in mammals which live in the sea

3 Special aspects of sleep in some animal species

3.1 One-sided sleep

3.2 Sleep in animals which hibernate

4 See also

5 References

--Hordaland (talk) 07:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The article is referenced and stuff, I'm sure a lot of it could be used in the English article. You can make a request for translation at Wikipedia:Translation/*/Lang/sv. It can often take some time for requests to be fullfilled, but it seems that User:Where next Columbus? is an active translator. Puchiko (Talk-email) 19:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'd never heard of that translation request thing. Everything's been thought of at Wikipedia; I'm continually being impressed.

I've been in contact with the author of Sömn hos djur, Nitramus, and s/he will consider doing it in English, but seems to have a long list of improvements to Swedish sleep articles to tackle first. I can read enough Swedish to know that it's a good article, and the author has received awards for it.

I'm a bit uncertain as to the title. I don't much like "Sleep among animals", as it suggests that we aren't animals. I guess the non-human solution is OK, but nobody would ever think to search on that term; it would have to be stumbled upon by way of links in other articles. --Hordaland (talk) 20:12, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, redirects can do wonders. My idea would be something like this:

• Sleep-redirect to Sleep (humans). The current content would be split between Sleep (humans) and Sleep (non-humans)
• Sleep (humans)-most of the current article would be put there. Also, there would be notice at the top of the page, something among the lines of This article deals with human sleep. For sleep in non-humans, see Sleep (non-humans)
• Sleep (non-humans)-this article would constitute mostly of the translation of sv:Sömn hos djur and of the last section of this article
• Sleep (animals)-redirect to Sleep (non-humans)
• Sleep in animals-redirect to Sleep (non-humans)
• Animal sleep-redirect to Sleep (non-humans)

Of course, as we have seen in the above sections, the splitting of this article into two is quite controversial, so let's wait and see if there are any objections. I myself know very little about sleep, and therefore can't judge whether the articles should be separate. Puchiko (Talk-email) 20:40, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

There is already a short section marked for expansion in this article, but to expand it with roughly five screenfuls of relatively specific material when this article seems to be about sleep in humans seems a bit awkward. Perhaps this article could be an article about sleep in general, with another for humans and one other for non-humans. But the solution that seems most practical would be to leave this article as is but mark it to be about human sleep, with the section on non-human sleep edited to become an introduction to the new article and add redirects. I'm interested in doing the translation, but it would be good to make a request so that doubled work is avoided, and proofreading facilitated. Where next Columbus? (talk) 22:41, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

I have now made a formal request at Wikipedia:Translation/Sleep (non-humans). I hope I didn't mess it up, I've never filed a request myself, I just fulfilled them. Puchiko (Talk-email) 23:27, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Seems OK. :) Where next Columbus? (talk) 00:00, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, I am done with the translation. I'm putting it under Sleep (non-human) as per discussion above, but after a bit of searching I've found quite many articles named "xx in animals". (I did find a Dental caries (non-human), for instance, but no "(non-humans)"). Should it go under "Sleep in animals", as the original article? If so, just move it. Where next Columbus? (talk) 20:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the translation! I've just created a ton of redirects from the alternate titles, so that should be okay. Puchiko (Talk-email) 19:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks to you both! A fascinating article. I'm doing some proof-reading, and either of you may revert my changes if you don't agree. Godt nyttår! --Hordaland (talk) 20:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I am glad you're catching all those awkward wordings I created! Makes me think I should be prohibited from editing without my Modern English Grammar at my side. :) Thanks! Just mark the translation page as proof-read when done. God fortsättning! (Happy new year elicits Happy continuation) Where next Columbus? (talk) 23:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The Nightmare article

I know this kind of doesn't belong here, but I'm inexperienced and thought this might work :). There are probably a lot of experts/knowledgeable people here in this subject area (Sleep), so I ask some of you to go look at the nightmare article, which, at this point (29 Dec 07) is in extremely poor shape and there seems nobody able/willing to work on it. Somebody here might have the necessary skills to clean it up, as it doesn't look extremely good for Wikipedia, having a 'fundamental' subject such as that with a poor article. Just trying to rally the troops.... Chris b shanks (talk) 18:34, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

I think the Trivia section should be removed as it is utterly ridiculous as well as completely impossible to make sense of. It has the sentence :

"Sleep is where Ralph is a Viking."

Now perhaps this is some sort of vandalism or joke, but if it's meant to be serious, what on earth does it mean? The word 'Ralph' links to an article on Ralph Wiggum, a fictional character from the Simpsons cartoon. But this article contains neither the word 'sleep' nor 'viking'. Perhaps there is some insider knowledge of the Simpsons cartoon that can explain this, but even if this is true, it does not merit a place in this article as, firstly, the information that would explain it is missing from the Ralph Wiggum page, and secondly, it is frankly absurd and utterly detracts from the respectability if this article as well as Wikipedia as a whole.

I therefore propose to remove it, if no one has any objections within a suitable time frame. --kevoreilly 2nd January 2008. —Preceding comment was added at 16:26, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry, it was just vandalism. Pinikas reverted it already. Puchiko (Talk-email) 16:52, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

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